This sounds like a job for... someone else. What do you think?

[lavachickie]

Let me run an idea by y'all, and get your input. I understand nothing said here constitutes official legal advice. And I'm providing all the information I can to paint a full picture. Please read to the end before reacting/responding.

I am President of an informal scuba club. By informal, I mean that we are not a formal non-profit. Our group is well organized, and guided by an all volunteer, elected leadership board. (We have a formal member roster of about 50 members, with 318 peeps on our mailing list, and 475 following our Facebook page.) Our activities are mainly a monthly meeting where we host a speaker and have other small, brief presentations. We loosely organize a monthly club dive, and also have a summer picnic in July and holiday party in December. We use a waiver of liability when people sign up to be a member, and also on site at each club dive.

In my position, one of the biggest challenges is making sure our informal club walks the line(s) properly so as to minimize the liability exposure to our leadership team. We are just a group of people who love to dive and share that experience.

SO... a local brewery contacted us. While delivering a 13.3 gallon aluminum sized keg of beer to a day-cruising boat on the Willamette River, their distributor lost one off the end of the dock. There is a ~125 lb keg of beer in approximately 30 feet of water in an area where there is both commercial and recreational boating activity. The keg was last seen as it went into the water. Current is low in that area, visibility is usually poor, and the bottom is sandy/mucky.

They had the admittedly fun idea of getting some divers to recover it. They'd video the event, use it for publicity. If the keg came back unsullied (which I don't think it will, but I haven't done the math), they'd donate it to a taphouse, publicize the event, and donate all the proceeds to a water related charity chosen together.

My first reaction in my role of President for our group: Oh really? I know some recovery trained divers. Do tell me more, and would you adding a rider to your insurance to cover all the people involved in assisting with this?

The person I am speaking with said no, they could not/would not do that.

My second reaction in my role of President: Oh HELL no.

IMO, this is one of those it-sounds-simple tasks that needs to be treated with a level of seriousness that only experience and/or paranoia can bring one to. Those who are interested are only thinking, "Beer, cool!" and not looking at it from a more formal risk assessment angle. In short, this would need a team of divers with training and experience in underwater recovery, with a backup team, and surface team for support. And, it would need coverage that would protect from the myriad of commercial and private parties that an issue could impact.

My thought is to thank this gentleman for thinking of us, but to explain that what seems like a simple task should be dealt with a level of attention, detail and professionalism that our informal dive club cannot really provide. To assist in this, he should contact a professional recovery operation that works in the area (of which I can pass on information for two or three).

One reason I'm posting here is that I want to provide some other viewpoints to the leadership group as we form a response to this. I don't think I'm overly paranoid here, but some may think I am. I don't think most people fully appreciate the issues of exposure, liability and risk management, nor do they look at it from the angle of someone making a decision not only for my own exposure, but the exposure of the entire leadership team.

Looking forward to your thoughts.

 

[Wookie]

I would suggest farming the recovery out to some more enthusiastic club members and keeping the club out of it.

 

[Ken T]

With regards to your clubs liability - this is what we have in my province, maybe Oregon has something similar:
[h=3]What is a society?[/h]A society is an incorporated group of five or more people who share a common recreational, cultural, scientific, or charitable interest. The Societies Act regulates societies incorporated in Alberta.
[h=3]What is the purpose for incorporating a society?[/h]Incorporation is not mandatory; the decision up to each group. There are several advantages to incorporating a group.

• Members of societies may not be held responsible for the debts of the society.
• Societies may own property and may enter into contracts under the society's name, as opposed to its individual members entering into a contract.
• The public's perception of a society is that an incorporated group has a more formal, permanent status than an unincorporated group.
• Note: Societies may not incorporate primarily to carry on a trade or business.

Here is Alberta it is not hard to get society status, especially if you already have a semi-formal leadership team and some club by-laws already.

And it sounds like you already have some liability forms and insurance to cover your club activities already.




As for the beer keg situation -

I'm not sure that this task is beyond your club members that have had some training in search and recovery and that can reliably use a lift bag.

That is to say – it sounds like a good practice dive.

The normal factors of :
Just how much current? How much boat traffic? apply on any dive activity.

And if it truly is just off the end of the dock, then the most difficult thing might be getting it out of the water if dragging it to shore is not an option.

 

[flots am]

> their distributor lost one off the end of the dock

First, the beer is gone.

The keg isn't very negative and the specific gravity of beer runs about 1.01, while dirty fresh water is higher, which means the beer almost certainly wandered down river already.

That said, you don't want your members anywhere near a dock. Docks often have exposed or damaged wiring and nearly always have sharp, rusty parts. Someone is going to have a "bad day" and you don't want to be part of it (or worse yet, the cause of it)

flots.

 

[doctormike]

What Wookie said.

I'm also the president of a very similar dive club, and we frequently grapple with similar problems. There is no reason why a diver with the appropriate training, experience and equipment shouldn't agree to do this recovery job. If you know some divers like that, then I see no problem with passing their names on to these people. BUT, there is absolutely no reason why this should be a formal club event.

We make it explicitly clear in all of our releases, emails and other material that as a dive club, we are only there to coordinate the social aspects of diving, helping people find rides to dives, etc... We never "vet" divers, i.e. set standards for who can do what dive. Each diver is responsible for making those decisions on their own.

 

[lavachickie]

As a whole, the leadership team has little interest in becoming a formal non profit. But that's another post.

My concern is that if I -- or any other member of leadership -- pass this "opportunity" along, that could in some way open us up to liability as we tacitly approved the activity, or if we suggested certain people, we make a statement about their abilities.

 

[miketsp]

I don't see why this has to be considered an official club activity.
Surely divers that are only loosely "affilated" can also dive when and where they want.
It should be sufficient to comment in your newsletter or on your Facebook page the loss of the keg. If some "members" then want to get together to have a dive at that spot I really don't see how the club can be liable.
Quite different from you actually organizing the dive.

 

[tomfcrist]

Just go get the beer without the club being involved.....and drink it at the next club meeting. A win for everyone!

 

[doctormike]

My concern is that if I -- or any other member of leadership -- pass this "opportunity" along, that could in some way open us up to liability as we tacitly approved the activity, or if we suggested certain people, we make a statement about their abilities.

Yes, we have all become risk averse, but I think that this concern is a bit overblown. Sure, "anyone can be sued for anything", but if you are really that concerned about such a tenuous liability connection then you might want to rethink assuming a leadership role in any sort of diving organization.

Not trying to dismiss your fears- everyone has to stick to their own personal comfort level. But I find it hard to imagine a successful judgement against you simply for giving this person some names to contact, especially if you do it as an individual and not in your role of club president.

 

[Wookie]

And another thing. Beer kegs are a dime a dozen. The distributor is out maybe $50 bucks in the cost of the keg and contents. You've spent more than $50 bucks in angst for something that isn't your problem.

Pick your battles. This isn't one of them.