This should be a sticky ...

[DennisW]

That was the one I was thinking about. However, we both could do those skills while swimming when we got certified. Actually, I know I could. Donna may not have been able to clear her mask while swimming, but I wouldn't bet that she couldn't. Donna never has liked flooding and clearing her mask. She does this once a year in the pool just to practice the skill.

 

[D_B]

I'm going to repost this for consideration, I think that Walter has pretty much "hit the nail on the head" with his post about finding an above average scuba course and instructor
I think it would make a great sticky in the " New Divers & Those Considering Diving" thread ...

How do I find an above average course and how will I know I've found it?

To find an excellent course will require some research on your part. Going down to the first local shop you find will get you a c-card, but your training will likely be inadequate.

Take your time to research and find the best instructor in your area. Next, take time to complete the course. A good course will last several weeks. Don't rush this, it's something you can spend the rest of your life enjoying.

Interview potential instructors. Most people never ask any questions beyond price. As the old saying goes, "You get what you pay for." Excellent instructors will usually have a higher priced class for a number of reasons. The instructor is dedicated toward providing you all the time you need to master necessary knowledge and skills. Extra pool time can be expensive. Keep in mind; the instructor is trying to make a living. His time is valuable.

Consider alternatives. While many instructors teach through dive shops, some of the best are independent instructors or affiliated with colleges, universities or YMCA's.

Questions to ask the instructors:
How long have you been teaching? Most instructors improve over time. They learn new techniques and get ideas from other instructors and through experience to improve their classes.

Do you certify all your students? Only instructors who are in a hurry and care nothing about your safety will answer yes. You want an instructor who will require you to be safe and knowledgeable before issuing a c-card. An excellent instructor might tell you that he is willing to keep working with a student until the student either qualifies or gives up.

What skin diving skills will I learn? While there is some disagreement on this point, many professionals believe a solid foundation in skin diving will not only make you a better SCUBA diver, it will make learning SCUBA easier.

Will I learn confidence-building skills? There are some skills which have no direct application to a typical dive, but which do build your confidence as well as your abilities. This, combined with an understanding of the panic cycle, will make you much less likely to panic.

Do you teach the panic cycle? Panic is the most dangerous aspect of diving. Many instructors do not understand panic and believe there is no way to combat it. In actuality, panic is understood. It is though learning the panic cycle and by increasing skill levels that panic is avoided.

Do your students swim with their hands? This will let you know if the instructor pays attention to details. Good divers do not use their hands for swimming.

Do you work on trim? Divers should usually be horizontal in the water. Good instructors will see that students are striving towards good trim. Poor instructors often neglect it.

Do you overweight your students? Many instructors overweight students. It is not a good practice.

What method do you use to correctly weight your students? Any answer that does not involve actually getting in the water means you want to avoid that instructor.

How many people will be in my class? Small classes are better. You'll have more individual attention. Unless the instructor is using certified assistants, more than four students are difficult to watch.

How many certified assistants will you be using? Unless the class is relatively large (more than 4 students) this should not be an issue. An instructor should have a certified Divemaster or Assistant Instructor for every two students over four. There are times when divers working on their Divemaster or Assistant Instructor certifications assist with a class. This is normal and not an issue, but they do not count toward the assistants an instructor should have when working with larger classes.

Will I be learning skills kneeling on the pool bottom or mid-water? This question is not critical, but will let you know if you've found an instructor who has a great deal on the ball. The over whelming majority of instructors (even good instructors) teach skills kneeling on the bottom. Don't eliminate instructors who do. Some instructors have realized your mask will flood while you are swimming, not when you are sitting on the bottom. You need to learn skills in the manner in which you'll be using them.
Do you dive for fun or just when you are teaching? Instructors who've stopped diving for fun are burned out.

Questions to ask yourself:
Is the instructor patient? While talking with your potential instructor, you should be getting a feel for his personality. Patience is an important quality for an instructor. You want to avoid instructors with a drill sergeant demeanor.

Would I be happier learning from a man or a woman? Only you can answer that question, but in general it is not usually a serious consideration. There are excellent instructors and there are poor instructors. Men and women fall into both groups.

 

[D_B]

And here is another good one that should be considered ... I find this is a helpful post by Diver0001 , and some responses ... (http://www.scubaboard.com/showthread.php?t=181904 )

I'm going to kick off a thread here about what to watch for and what to watch *out* for when you read people's responses to your questions.

I'll try to keep this short so it can be used as a framework for other people to post their suggestions too.

On the crowd mentality

First of all, these internet forums are just like any other crowd. At a football game if 50,000 people start cheering, you'll probably start cheering too. It might be because there's something to cheer for and it might just be because everyone is cheering. If you're like me then you've done "the wave" so you know what I'm talking about.

It's like that on the internet too. At the moment there are 70,000 people on Scubaboard and we do sometimes act like a large crowd. One time you see this (certainly not the only time) is if you post a question like "I'm having trouble with my trim, can someone help me?"

A question like this will inevitably evoke the cheers of "get rid of your jacket", "Buy a backplate and wing!", "You need new flippers" and things like this. It can be confusing when you ask a question about your trim and you get 50 responses telling you that you bought the wrong gear. However, amongst the 50 cheers about replacing the entire contents of your dive-bag, one or two people will respond with "what is your problem", "tell us more", "have you changed anything".

Put succinctly, like this, it's clear to see who you should listen to. On some of the threads it's not clear at all.... As a general rule (there are exceptions) if you think you're having a problem with a skill and people start talking about gear, you can probably ignore them. Even if a *lot* of people start repeating what one or two people said then consider the possibility that we're (I say we because everyone gets sucked into it sometimes) we're saying it out of a crowd mentality and look for the people who are thinking along with you, even if they're in the minority.

On the subject of gear.

If you drive a car, then you'll know that some people love Fords and some people hate them. Both the lovers and the haters are passionate and if you ask about a Ford in a bar, you're lucky if it doesn't start a fight.... Well the same thing happens here. Many people who interact with each other online do so very *very* bluntly. Opinions given are often defended as if they are of considerable importance when in fact, the reality doesn't matter nearly as much. If you ask "which computer should I buy" then you'll see the name of every computer on the market. You'll also see crowds forming to cheer for a certain computer and crowds forming to boo it. How on earth are you supposed to see the forest for the trees through all of that jostling around for attention? Look for the one or two posts that address your question. Someone will say "what kind of diving are you doing" or they'll make a nice unbiased comparison between different computers. Those are the posts you're looking for.

Moreover, on the subject of gear, people will not only advise you about what to buy. We will also (vehemently) advise you about what *NOT* to buy. (The ones who hate Fords).

Consider this. If someone is saying to you, "Mares flippers suck big doo-doo", how big do you think the chance is that they actually *have* Mares flippers?

Did the coin just drop?

In fact, the most vocal 'haters' of just about everything out there are usually the least likely people to have much experience diving in the gear they hate. Why people do this is probably a good topic for a doctoral thesis in psychology but the fact is that we do. In large numbers.... all the time. For example, if you say "I'm thinking about buying a HUB, what do you think". Then you'll hear people who bought a bp/wing (backplate & wing) right out of the gate, say that they hate all jackets and they hate the HUB even more.... even though they may have never worn a jacket and they may have never even *seen* a HUB..... Likewise, if you say "I'm thinking about buying this or that computer" then some joker who doesn't have a computer will come on and say "computers rot your brain" (I'm going to come back to this). In fact as a general rule consider every piece of negative feedback you receive very carefully and ask the poster if they have actual experience with the bit of gear you're talking about of if they only have an opinion. Personally, I'd be more inclined to believe someone with real world experience.

On the subject of religion.

Getting back to the comment above that people will say "computers rot your brain". If you walk around in a big city then you'll see different groups of people. The skin-heads, the goth, the skaters, the bikers etc etc. Subcultures. Little groups within a big group who share the same ideas and values. Well we have subcultures in scuba diving too. Hogarthian, DIR, Solo divers, Tech divers... you name it. Each one of those groups have things that they hold very dear to their own philosophy and identity. For example, every single Hogarthian diver out there has a regulator with a very long hose attaching it to the tank. Ergo, if you ask a question like "I'm thinking about buying a new regulator, what do I need" *someone* will tell you that you *need* a long-hose. If you *actually* need one or not is not their concern. They believe that *everyone* *always* needs a long-hose.... It's just the nature of the subculture beast. What you can do about that to avoid getting bad advice is twofold. First ask a control question back for example, if someone says to you "you need a long-hose" ask them about their flavour. For example, you can say "do you believe I need a long-hose because of your own diving style". Some people will be upfront about it and other people will be more evasive. Keep probing.

It's like that with a lot of topics. Gear is one. Training is another, but it also extends to skills, protocols and in some cases outside of the realm of diving.... fitness, mental health and so forth..... The main thing here is to try to grasp the context in which someone makes a particular comment. For example, If someone says "computers rot your brain" then you can bet a kilogram of banana's that they believe in DIR. If someone says "your buddy is a liability" then you can put your bananas on "Solo diver" and so forth. So the second thing you can do when you hear things that don't seem to make immediate sense is ask yourself "why is he/she saying that". Maybe it's because of a belief. Over time you'll get a feeling for which key concepts belong to which subcultures and you'll be able to put things in better context. In the mean while try to understand the context of a particular comment as best you can.

The last thing to say about that is to weigh the comments and take what you can from it. You can't believe everything everyone says. Some subcultures have incompatible values as well (DIR and Solo divers, for example). Try to remain open and (this is my own belief) try to resist jumping on any particular horse until you have some idea of which horses are running in the race.

So there we go. There's a start. I hope other people will add to this. I'm sorry it's so long but I guess if you read this far it must have been worth it.

R..

 

[Dive-aholic]

Please do make this a sticky. I'd like to link it without the first paragraph to my site.

Or, with your permission Walter, I can just copy and paste to my site with credit to you. If you don't mind that, PM me the information about you that you'd like me to include.