This is criminal...

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VMarcHart:
DeepSeaDan.

Point taken, thank you, but let me ask you this. If it was an OSHA-regulated dive by an experienced and licensed commercial diver, would've you reacted similarly?

I agree with you that corporations, in their need to cut costs, are actually cutting way too many corners and hiring the first well-intended fool that walks in with a low bid. That's the criminal, indeed.

...not at all.

If the job was being conducted legitimately on every count according to the standards in place for such work, I would have no issue. I would be interested to know what happened & why; I would want to know the results of the formal investigation of the incident; specifically, if there was any breach of safe working protocol or practice(s) conducted that contravened the regulations. If it was proven that such an infraction(s) occurred, I would fully expect the guilty parties be punished accordingly.

Regards,
D.S.D.
 
Government intervention, rules and regulations (such as OSHA) are not the answer. They certainly don't do anything to save lives. Rules and laws aren't worth much more than the paper they are written on if companies don't follow them. Bottom line is OSHA does not have the manpower to enforce all the rules they try to impress on commercial dive companies. Then there is the need to define exactly what a commercial dive company is. There is also the level in between recreational and commercial diving called professional diving. The lines are blurred between them all and just who is qualified to do what?

For example, here in Baltimore, many government dive teams (Police and Fire) are trained by recreational dive leaders. These people may be considered professional divers, but they go out and do commercial grade jobs, such as search and recovery with extended bottom times and deep depths wearing commercial gear such as full face units, drysuits and even helmets.

Recreational divers may start professional dive service companies that work in Marina's cleaning props or unclogging AC Intakes - never deeper than 6 feet for never longer than 30 minutes (and sometimes no longer than 30 seconds.) Are they to be treated the same as commercial divers in helmet gear doping decompression diving under bridges?

Bottom line is OSHA is not needed and really does little to help save lives. What saves lives is proper training, due diligence, a company owner that is proud to have and maintain a perfect safety record and workers who look out for each other.

OSHA could have done little to save that boys life... and more government regulation wouldn't have either. Rules will be broken by those that want to break them - and those people will pay the price. I hate to say it... but they usually get what they deserve.

Happy Diving...
 
VMarcHart:
I failed to understand what Disney did that created an unsafe situation for the 16-yr-old. Whereas I terribly regret Alan got hurt doing an activity that I so love, accidents do happen, even with the most experienced divers, with the most trustworthy equipment, in the most senere of waters. I agree more rigorous training ought to be mandatory, but it will never ever eliminate fate. Dive is a very dangerous activity, not unlike motorcycles, ski diving, skiing, etc. My prayers are with Alan and his family.

not too sure about over there but here in the UK you can NOT get paid for comercial diving on a PADI qualification ... it's not worth the plastic its printed on, you need the HSE qualification.
 
DeepSeaDan:
Here in Ontario, we have four diving inspectors employed to enforce the diving regulations of the Province. If I were to witness diving operations in contravention of the regs., I would simply contact the minisrty & report the violation(s).
While Ontario's efforts in this arena are to be applauded, unfortunately we only have 4 diving inspectors in Ontario. We also have 250,000 lakes alone. While I have never had occasion to report an obviously unsafe commercial diving operation, I have reported an unsafe construction site. This particular farce was the demolition of a gas station at the intersection of 2 busy provincial highways in broad daylight. Driving by I could see summer help students without even basic hard hats or safety shoes milling about. Two were on top of the canopy while a backhoe was being used to pull sections of it down. Steel was snapping and shaking and there wasn't a safety belt to be seen. The site was less than 10 minutes away from a regional WCB centre where dozens of construction safety inspectors were based. I called the office from my cell phone but nobody was available to come out and issue a stop work order. They were all out and about inspecting sites on their scheduled list. Filing a complaint is one thing -- having the resources to take action is another.

And while there is a CSA standard that would require commercial training of commercial divers, unfortunately it has not yet (as of this spring anyway) been adopted by this province. Consequently, a person can legally perform commercial dive work without any training whatsoever -- even PADI OW would be a step up. Commercial operations are supposed to follow certain procedures but the unfortunate fact is that the incident in Florida, as described in the sketchy news report, could have happened here even if a dive inspector was standing on the shore observing the operation at that moment. We require tether lines -- the boy was tangled in a "rope used for diving". We require surface support in the form of a backup diver and a supervisor -- he was pulled out by "other members". We require a means of communication -- they pulled him out when they saw his helmet float to the surface. It doesn't say but the helmet may have contained 2-way voice communication. Or they may have been using tugs on a signal line and that was 1 of the "ropes" he got tangled. We require at least one of the surface support personel to be trained in first aid and suitably equipped -- the boy survived long enough for a helicopter to get him to hospital so something suitable and timely must've been done for him on the surface*.

Ontario may have taken a few steps down the right road, but the journey is far from complete.

(*Please note: I am not saying that the operation was conducted in accordance with any recognized standards, just that we cannot tell from that report. I work in an industry where I regularly experience things first hand that are later shown on the evening news and often I am left shaking my head wondering if the reporter was really at the same scene. The answer is of course that while the reporter may have been, the editor certainly wasn't.)
 
It's real common in south florida to see help wanted ads for Divers/Bottom cleaners in the boating newspapers. Requirements are usually-must have certification and transportation. The waterfront news usually has a half dozen every month from the same companies, which leads me to believe the pay is really low.
 
derwoodwithasherwood:
While Ontario's efforts in this arena are to be applauded, unfortunately we only have 4 diving inspectors in Ontario. We also have 250,000 lakes alone. While I have never had occasion to report an obviously unsafe commercial diving operation, I have reported an unsafe construction site. This particular farce was the demolition of a gas station at the intersection of 2 busy provincial highways in broad daylight. Driving by I could see summer help students without even basic hard hats or safety shoes milling about. Two were on top of the canopy while a backhoe was being used to pull sections of it down. Steel was snapping and shaking and there wasn't a safety belt to be seen. The site was less than 10 minutes away from a regional WCB centre where dozens of construction safety inspectors were based. I called the office from my cell phone but nobody was available to come out and issue a stop work order. They were all out and about inspecting sites on their scheduled list. Filing a complaint is one thing -- having the resources to take action is another.

And while there is a CSA standard that would require commercial training of commercial divers, unfortunately it has not yet (as of this spring anyway) been adopted by this province. Consequently, a person can legally perform commercial dive work without any training whatsoever -- even PADI OW would be a step up. Commercial operations are supposed to follow certain procedures but the unfortunate fact is that the incident in Florida, as described in the sketchy news report, could have happened here even if a dive inspector was standing on the shore observing the operation at that moment. We require tether lines -- the boy was tangled in a "rope used for diving". We require surface support in the form of a backup diver and a supervisor -- he was pulled out by "other members". We require a means of communication -- they pulled him out when they saw his helmet float to the surface. It doesn't say but the helmet may have contained 2-way voice communication. Or they may have been using tugs on a signal line and that was 1 of the "ropes" he got tangled. We require at least one of the surface support personel to be trained in first aid and suitably equipped -- the boy survived long enough for a helicopter to get him to hospital so something suitable and timely must've been done for him on the surface*.

Ontario may have taken a few steps down the right road, but the journey is far from complete.

(*Please note: I am not saying that the operation was conducted in accordance with any recognized standards, just that we cannot tell from that report. I work in an industry where I regularly experience things first hand that are later shown on the evening news and often I am left shaking my head wondering if the reporter was really at the same scene. The answer is of course that while the reporter may have been, the editor certainly wasn't.)

...it is quite accurate to state "a person can legally perform commercial dive work without any training whatsoever -- even PADI OW would be a step up." Consider:

"Duties of Employers, Constructors and Owners

4.1 (1) In this section,

“Standard” means CSA Standard Z275.4-02, “Competency Standard for Diving Operations”. O. Reg. 155/04, s. 3.

(2) An employer shall ensure that all persons who participate in a diving operation are trained to a level of competency equal to or exceeding the competency requirement of the Standard that applies to the type of diving operation being participated in. O. Reg. 155/04, s. 3.

(3) For the purposes of subsection (2) and despite Clause 1.6 of the Standard, the Standard applies to scientific diving as defined in Clause 2.1 of the Standard. O. Reg." 155/04, s. 3.

...this from Ontario diving Regulation 629/94.

Read the entire standard & I think you'll agree that the Inspectors have a considerable degree of power to assess & affect all types of diving ops.

Regards,
D.S.D.
 
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