Thinking about doubles....

[Boogie711]

I'll say it again though - if you're stupid enough to dive without being able to reach your valves, or too stupid to know to shut down an isolator, then DON'T DIVE.

Period.

Until very recently, I admit I couldn't reach my valves. It was a case of underwear that don't fit properly. I'm getting new underwear, and I won't do any serious dives until it arrives.

But saying "If you do nothing, with independents, you'll only lose half your air" is rather akin to saying "you're better to buy a car made out of popcorn, because it will have a softer impact on the truck in front of you when you don't hit your brakes."

 

[cstreu1026]

I am thinking that I am going to put off the purchase of a set of doubles for a while and just go with a single large steel tanks for now. If I don't go hog whild on the tanks them maybe if I am lucky my wife will let me get a drysuit sooner rather than later. A set of doubles definitely would have pushed that purchase back quite a bit.

I am thinking either a PST LP120 or an E8 119 for myself. They are essentially the same price that is really a factor. Are there any significant advantages with either one? Also, is there anything wrong with getting my wife an E7 80?

 

[ScubaDadMiami]

Rather than buying anything first, get in touch with an instructor to assist in your equipment selection. Then get the additional training to use that equipment properly from the instructor.

It can be pretty upsetting when you spend money on the wrong equipment and then have to buy new equipment a second time.

 

[matt_unique]

I'll say it again though - if you're stupid enough to dive without being able to reach your valves, or too stupid to know to shut down an isolator, then DON'T DIVE.

Period.

Until very recently, I admit I couldn't reach my valves. It was a case of underwear that don't fit properly. I'm getting new underwear, and I won't do any serious dives until it arrives.

But saying "If you do nothing, with independents, you'll only lose half your air" is rather akin to saying "you're better to buy a car made out of popcorn, because it will have a softer impact on the truck in front of you when you don't hit your brakes."

True or False: If you do nothing, with independents, you'll only lose half your remaining air compared to manifolded doubles w/isolator where you will loose 100%.

Change your system until you can reach all your valves. For those considering the differences between independents and manifolded doubles w/isolator, the issue above is a totally valid one to consider. You give yourself (divers/people in general) way too much credit for always being able to do what you need to do immediately in an emergency. You can train until you are blue in the face but when you first encounter an emergency there *will* be a spectrum of response from 'pissing your pants and freezing' to being a 'little surprised' prior to your response. Having a system that will cover your a$$ for the worst case scenario should this happen is a totally valid consideration.

--Matt

 

[Boogie711]

Matt - When you're driving down the road and see someone stopped in front of you, do you a) freeze and do nothing, or b) hit the brakes and try to avoid a collision?

I mean, personally, I stop, but according to your logic, you could be "trained until you are blue in the face," but when you first encounter an emergency, you just admitted you might just piss your pants and freeze.

Using your 'lowest common denominator' as logic is akin to purchasing a popcorn car, and leaving brake pedals and rotors at home.

See my point here? With respect, If anyone is so imcompetent as to not have the ability to handle an isolation manifold and dive doubles, then I'd say it's a classic example of Darwin doing his best.

 

[cornfed]

See my point here? With respect, If anyone is so imcompetent as to not have the ability to handle an isolation manifold and dive doubles, then I'd say it's a classic example of Darwin doing his best.

Hey Jeff... why don't you try mounting your tanks upside-down. I've heard that makes it easier to reach your valves.

 

[Boogie711]

Or maybe I can get some OMS slobwinders and a 100 lb bungee wing, dive dual independents with a pony bottle and an Air2?

 

[cornfed]

Don't for get your Spare Air. Sounds like you're planning a tek dive so you should probably get the Nitrox Spare Air...

 

[matt_unique]

Matt - When you're driving down the road and see someone stopped in front of you, do you a) freeze and do nothing, or b) hit the brakes and try to avoid a collision?

I mean, personally, I stop, but according to your logic, you could be "trained until you are blue in the face," but when you first encounter an emergency, you just admitted you might just piss your pants and freeze.

Using your 'lowest common denominator' as logic is akin to purchasing a popcorn car, and leaving brake pedals and rotors at home.

See my point here? With respect, If anyone is so imcompetent as to not have the ability to handle an isolation manifold and dive doubles, then I'd say it's a classic example of Darwin doing his best.

I have been able to react in such car accident avoidance but some people definitely do not. That is the point. Do you understand what 'lowest common denominator' means? I am only debating that point and not irrelevant popcorn car scenarios.

Forget about your argument tactic for a moment, answer the True or False question I posted above. Do you understand the differences between independents and manifolded doubles? Let's take it from there and discuss this.

--Matt

 

[Boogie711]

Matt - I'm not trolling, but if you wish to resort to personal attacks, that's your perogative.

I completely understand the difference between a manifold and independent doubles. Do you understand that with the isolator closed, you in essence have - gasp - independent doubles? But with an isolation manifold, you have all the benefits of independents, but without any of the detriments, such as losing access to half your gas if a reg craps out.

You claim manifolded doubles are bad, because people won't close the isolation valve.

What part of "If you're too stupid, paralyzed with fear or incompetent as to close down your isolation valve, then you don't belong in the water, much less with doubles" are you having a problem with?

I completely do not accept your "lowest common denominator" thinking. My thinking is even simpler - if you're that incompetent, stay on the boat or on the shoreline.