There are some misinformed people, including instructors, bashing PADI and the MSD

[boomx5]

In fact, GUE's whole marketing is based on Elitest 'their training will kill you' rheoteric.

what GUE classes have you taken?

 

[chrpai]

what GUE classes have you taken?

LOL!!!!!!! Now you have to pay them money and take a class to even comment on their marketing tactics?

HAHAHAHAHA Thankyou for the good laugh. I needed that.

 

[boomx5]

LOL!!!!!!! Now you have to pay them money and take a class to even comment on their marketing tactics?

HAHAHAHAHA Thankyou for the good laugh. I needed that.

is how you seem to know so much about DIR and have never taken a class. Furthermore, seeing that you posts are always Anti-DIR, your comments regarding their marketing tactics (as you call them) are biased, and therefore have no merit.

 

[MikeFerrara]

For those bashing PADI and the Master Diver certification - you need to do some homework, and some sensible thinking..... snip...

I also know many DM's that are very inexperienced and have little or no advanced diving experience. The same could be said for Master Divers.

Dive Masters spend most of their time chasing weight belts in 30 feet of water.

--Matt

The supreme bashof all bashes.

Sorry I couldn't help it. LOL

 

[Doc Intrepid]

I was just pointing out that some of the people who so vehmently blast that PADI MSD also walk away from the DIR-F with the most arrogant, know it all attitude. In fact, GUE's whole marketing is based on Elitest 'their training will kill you' rheoteric.

Personally I think the PADI MSD is a joke. I've gone through rescue and I've done EAN to get fills. The rest of the 'specialites' I skip as I prefer the 'learn it with a buddy' approach.

Thus far you have established:

1. That you feel many divers who seek GUE training come from it with arrogant, know-it-all attitudes;

2. That you believe GUE's entire marketing strategy is based on Elitest 'their training will kill you' rheoteric;

3. That you feel the PADI Master Scuba Diver credential is a joke. I assume that to mean that you feel the PADI training required to earn the credential is inadequately rigorous or thorough; and

4. That in lieu of pursuing either specialty training from GUE or specialty training from PADI, you feel that it is preferable to follow an approach best described as 'learning things with a buddy'.

Ponder that for a moment...

Training is as adequate, rigorous, and thorough as the instructor. I have never taken any scuba course that I didn't learn something from. In some specialty areas, what I learned were subtle and finer points. I got quite a bit from both my GUE and PADI instruction. Becoming a PADI Instructor was a significant accomplishment to me. I have been extremely fortunate, however, to have been associated with fine instructors throughout my courses.

I wish you well with your 'learning things with a buddy' approach.
I suggest, however, that there is merit in looking harder into specialty instruction. On occasion it can offer insight and information that can save you a lot of grief from having to discover the same lessons while learning them with a buddy.

 

[MB]

Also keep in mind what Dive Masters do....this is not a knock on DM's....but they assist instructors with what are usually novice classes from shore in 30 feet of water. ...

...instructors and Dive Masters spend most of their time chasing weight belts in 30 feet of water.

Some thoughts on this thread:

1. There are serious and fundamental differences in agency approaches to the MD course.

2. Some agencies see the MD course as the knowledge base of scuba diving.

3. Some agencies see the MD course as a marketing opportunity that results in a collection of cards.

4. If you find that DMs and instructors are commonly chasing students weight belts in 30 fsw, then those instructors and DMs should re-examine their teaching procedures. Something is wrong if that is a common error among their students.

 

[chrpai]

I wish you well with your 'learning things with a buddy' approach.
I suggest, however, that there is merit in looking harder into specialty instruction. On occasion it can offer insight and information that can save you a lot of grief from having to discover the same lessons while learning them with a buddy.

Oh I'm sorry, I guess your upset that I don't like to Put Another Dollar In. God forbid I become a self-sufficient diver capable of expanding my dive horizons on my own with out the need to employ a 'professional'.

Take EAN for a moment. There wasn't a single thing I learned from PADI that I couldn't just learn for myself. Unfortunatly you need this little thing called a C-CARD to get a fill at the LDS.

I can see it on my next dive trip....

Divers, welcome to my boat. I need to see your AOW Card, your EAN card, your Boat Diver Card, Deep Diver Card...(yawn).....

 

[matt_unique]

A few of your criticisms are well off the mark.




Not quite. Effective with the 1st Quarter 2000 Training Bulletin, the required dives for the Enriched Air Specialty Course may be combined with dives from other courses. Since the 4th Quarter 2003 Training Bulletin, the other course could even be Open Water. Same dive counts toward both courses, even specialtiy courses.

>>My mistake, I agree you are absolutely correct, Enriched Air dives can count toward other specialties. I have never heard of OW divers using Nitrox as part of their OW training. I don't have any specific knowledge of this however.

Wrong again. Effective with the 1st Quarter 2002 Training Bulletin, the standard is now:
By my count, you could do four of the standard specialties without any required dives including Equipment Specialist, Project AWARE, DSAT Gas Blender, Project AWARE -- Coral Reef Conservation. Tack on a distinctive specialty such as Oxygen Administration and that's five with zero dives.

>>When I completed the MSD application in October 2003 there was a specific reference at the bottom of the form that reads 'non-diving specialties do not apply to MSD certification'. I addressed this specifically with my instructor because a month earlier I had completed a total of 4 "diving" specialties and the non-diving O2 Provider course. Unless I was provided with an old application or the rules have changed since Oct 03 you are mistaken.

Looks like you need to do some homework of your own.

Having completed my MSD a few months ago I am quite familiar with the application process. There are some posts, that I referenced at the start of the thread, that are just completely incorrect. This is what I am addressing here.

 

[Doc Intrepid]

I guess your upset that I don't like to Put Another Dollar In......

You don't upset me. I'm surprised that a guy who is a systems engineer feels a need to resort to vapid slogans to express your point, but your dedication to the home-school approach to advanced scuba instruction must be admired.

In fact, I withdraw my earlier suggestion. You clearly need no further instruction, and to look into any would only be wasting your time. You plainly are as informed as you need to be, and should you feel the need for any additional information I'm certain you'll eventually 'learn it with a buddy'.

In fact, you are a stunning testimony to that which is worthless in both the GUE curriculum and the PADI curriculum. All of it is obviously a fraud foisted on the diving public by greedy marketers and fill providers. No wonder you feel that the former is based on 'elitist rhetoric' and the latter is a 'joke'.

Chris, my hat is off to you. You've found the true path to enlightenment.

Safe diving...

 

[Drew Sailbum]

Being a full time PADI Instructor who processes MSD applications for our shop, I'm quite familiar with the requirements as they have changed. The most recent version of the MSD application is PRODUCT NO. 10142 V 2.0 (12/01).

In no way does that version of the application state that non-diving specialities do not count. It does reflect other changes implemented in the standards revision such as the requirement for 50 logged dives and the acceptance of qualifying certifications from other agencies to meet requirements for completion of AOW and Rescue Diver.

That application was revised as the standards have been updated. Sounds like your instructor was not up on the standards changes as released in the 1st Quarter 2002 Training Bulletin.