The "S" Word

[pipedope]

GI3 may have done some impressive diving but he far more damage to GUE and the DIR system than any army of enimies could ever have.

It is just to anoying to wade through six paragraphs of his garbage to get the real useful information out of any post he makes that most people just won't bother.

Frankly, I would NOT dive with him.
Not because he is a bad diver.
Not because he has an unsafe attitude.
Just because he is such an abusive person that I would not want to associate with him at all.

I think that people who use the term are also indication some of the same inclination and they are unlikely to be good buddies, DIR, GUE training or not.

Unless it is more like;
Society of
Technically
Risk
Optomising
Karst
Explorers



There is a longer version that is not really OK for posting here.

 

[Doc Intrepid]

However, I...am enrolled in Michael H. Kane's December DIR-F class on Catalina Island.

Don't forget to bring one case of red (Punch, Berry, etc.) Gatorade for Mike each day, Chief!

You'll have fun in the class...

 

[JeffG]

GI3 may have done some impressive diving but he far more damage to GUE and the DIR system than any army of enimies could ever have.

It is just to anoying to wade through six paragraphs of his garbage to get the real useful information out of any post he makes that most people just won't bother.

Don't you think it is shortsighted to throw away an entire system because of a perceived mentality?

:cwmddd:

 

[TheRedHead]

If I just based my decisions on what I read on-line, I wouldn't be taking the F class. But, darn it, when I dive with the suckers, they have some skills I don't, and you can't get 'em from the local Spokane PADI shop.

So, if, after the class next month, I start to give off an attitude of exclusivity, superiority, condescension, narrow-mindedness, snobbery and anti-strokishness, please remind me of this post.

I think you could learn the same skills by taking Cavern and Intro to Cave, which is probably what I'm going to next spring in Mexico.

There are certain tech divers who bristle at "Doing it Right" because it implies they are doing it wrong. The New Jersey wreck diver comes to mind. They particularly take offense at the fundy people with a superior attitude because the northeast wreck divers have done the training and dives which should entitle them to a degree of confidence that they are doing it right. There are also a certain number of people who would wear a lucky rabbit's foot on a retractor just because someone had the audacity to tell them they couldn't - or even shouldn't.

 

[Diver0001]

Most folks will dive with anyone on a reef dive, but as soon as you start talking about overheads, people get pretty picky as to their dive buddies, and rightly so.

Thoughts?

Mark

That article is a big mess.... He's talking about two completely different things..... Issue #1 is choosing buddies wisely and issue #2 is his *need* to label those who don't make the list with an insulting term.

I don't think anyone has a problem with issue #1 but enough people apparently find him charismatic enough to emulate his complete lack of respect for others.

The term is an insult. No if's and's or but's about it. Use it if you must but be aware that it says more about you than the person you're labeling.

R..

 

[Caver95]

All of you all who take offense to the term are strokes. ok just kidding.

I think you could learn the same skills by taking Cavern and Intro to Cave, which is probably what I'm going to next spring in Mexico.

.

If it is still there.

 

[scubatwinned]

IMHO A stroke is more dangerous than an unsafe diver.... A stroke doesn't know/think he is unsafe. So let's call it what it is.... This combined with an unsafe attittude is what rule # 1 is trying to avoid.

It would also help the discussion if people would state if they are DIR, DIR trained minded ect.... Non DIR guys are obviously going to be on the No side since they think they are the ones being referenced

I don't think what training agency brought you to the point of diving in an overhead enviroment, deep, cave whatever matters. As we have seen 1000 times over there are good and there are bad instructors in all agencies!!! An example - the instructor on a rebreather course I was witness to was the worst DIVER I have seen, this guy has every credential dir and others going but I would not dive with him again! Met a dir guy in florida who took off from the group and argued with the guide in the boat afterward when chastized saying he does not need to be babysat I'm dir

To me folks who look down their noses at others who have chosen not to go deep, cave, penetrate, etc or think they are better divers because they have paid for more courses dir or not are strokes.

I have over 500 logged wreck penetration dives 30m or better. In the Great lakes - St. Lawrence River - 15 years, Guadalcanal-1 month, 2 months in Chuuk Lagoon(Truk) 25 days - wrecks in Coron Bay(Philippines). Vanuatu, Mauritious, Vietnam, Palau, Guam, British Columbia, Florida, have others. These are the credentials I look for in a dive buddy not the amount of or who with they did their courses.

Have not taken any dir courses, don't know if I'm dir minded or not, Realy don't care if the term gets used or not because I wont be with the folks using it.

 

[MonkSeal]

As it's stated may times in this forum, this is not a place for discussing if DIR is ok or not but a place for sharing DIR solutions. Of course it's your right to have your opinion but with saying:

As we have seen 1000 times over there are good and there are bad instructors in all agencies!!!

you show that you really know little to nothing about GUE. It's discussed in other threads, so if you want you can read, I'll not re-open it here.

An example - the instructor on a rebreather course I was witness to was the worst DIVER I have seen, this guy has every credential dir and others going but I would not dive with him again!

I simply don't believe you, and you know that's not true. Or you don't know anything about GUE and DIR and anybody can say anything to you and you'll believe. What "every credential dir" did he have? C'mon, let's be serious.

 

[headhunter]

Don't forget to bring one case of red (Punch, Berry, etc.) Gatorade for Mike each day, Chief!

You'll have fun in the class...

I became a believer in Gatorade a couple of years ago.

I was backpacking around the Grand Canyon for a week with a friend of mine. I was drinking water and he had Gatorade. At the end of a 10-hour day of hiking in 110-degree heat with a 60 pound pack I was feeling pretty wrecked. So we did a little experiment. I gave him one of my quarts of water and he gave me one of his quarts of Gatorade. After about a 30 minute break drinking most of that quart, I was actually feeling pretty good!

Now, I take it with me everywhere when I'm doing any kind of exercise. I usually drink 3 - 4 Nalgene bottles full of Gatorade when I'm diving. I'll take the premixed stuff with me to Catalina, since we'll be there for a couple of days.

The class is going to be a lot of fun and I'm really looking forward to it.

Christian

 

[onfloat]

DIR-F is not the Marine Corps basic training (I was a USMC officer so I know what I'm talking about). You show too much pride; you exclude people; you elevate your status in your eyes and decrease it in others when you call someone a stroke or refer to divers who have not adopted DIR as strokes.

As an elisted Marine who has done Boot Camp, ( I know officers do TBS, different subject )I would say your right DIR-F is not Boot Camp, but it can have some of the same embarrassing moments :05:

Seriously though, I view GI as one of those Drill Instructors he has your best intrests at heart, because your mistake could cost some one their life including his or your own. If that takes not being gentle and hurting some feelings......so be it. New DIR-F graduates remind me of new Marines that are just spouting things with out really understanding the whys, wherefores and reasons. Both populations tend to react to populations that have no interest in becoming what they themselves have become, often to a detrimental effect. It's just the excitement of completing some challenging training and not being able to comprehend why some don't want to be like them.

As for GI's attitude about himself.......I don't know any Jarhead that does not hold the same opinion about his own abilities. We all like to think we are the best at what we do.