The pros and cons of rebuilding your own regulators...

[ScoobieDooo]

And on this 'torque' issue. Do repair techs actually use a torque wrench on their sockets, crow's feet to measure torque when reassembling parts?

 

[Genesis]

Or even one IN a shop, for that matter.

However, I own two, since I also work on my boat engines, where proper torque values are ESSENTIAL.

As such, I use one wherever there is a published torque value and its reasonably easy to get a proper measurement. For most regs, that would be the turret swivel bolt and the yoke or DIN inlet.

I've yet to need the crows' feet.

 

[Braunbehrens]

diverbrian once bubbled...
I have read the whole vitrolic line of posts.

That's pretty funny. Are you aware of the Techdiver mailing list? If you think people here are vitriolic, I suggest you take a look at the Techdiver archives. Afterwards you'll want to hug every person in this thread

As for servicing regs...they really are very simple. I think it would be beneficial to most people to know how they work so small problems can be taken care of. If you were some kind of tech, as you claim, I really don't see why you'd be afraid to take a look at a regulator.

It's not a nukular submarine, you know. It's just a little piece of rubber, that's held in place by a spring. When you breathe in, the diaphragm pulls on the spring and this pulls the rubber away from the air hose. Now the air comes in.

Have a look at the airspeed press book before you make up your mind that it's "too complicated for untrained people".

Of course there are lots of people who shouldn't tough anything mechanical with a ten foot pole, but somehow you don't strike me as one of them.

Anyhow, we are all responsible for our own decisions. I certainly accept no responsibility for anyone servicing their own gear OR having it serviced by a dive shop.

If you want to check out your reg, just take it apart and put it back together next time you need to bring it in for maintenance. You'll see...it's simple.

 

[Braunbehrens]

ScoobieDooo once bubbled...
Genesis,
I have Vance Harlow's book and agree that it looks pretty simple - but what has me concerned is - am I setting the 2nd stage cracking pressure correctly? Is it too sensitive? Or not? If I don't have an inline adjuster - can I still do it correctly vs. a shop that has all the fancy gauges, tools, etc? Can I still do an adequate job with a homemade manometer or by using the bathroom sink trick for cracking pressure?

SD, all you need to service your Apeks is a set of allens and a crescent wrench. Notice I said "NEED".

To get the 2nd stage cover off you have several options. One, just use your hands. This often works. Two, insert any available thing into the holes in a way that won't damage anything and use that to twist the cover off. This requires some seat of the pants technical skills, but it's what I do every time. I don't care if there are a few small scratches on it. You could also try using a rubber band. If you manage to put it on so that it is only over the cover it will probably give you enough resistance to twist it off with your hand. I use this technique with hard to open jars and so on. Most of the time I just use my small crescent wrench by opening it most of the way and inserting it into two convenient cover holes. This will mar the side of the holes slightly...like I said, I couldn't care less.

For the second stage, that is all you need. Read the service manual, you'll see that there is no reference to cracking pressure anywhere (at least for my TX50 and they are basically all the same).

To adjust the lever I start with the adjustment in the assembly procedure, then I back out the adjustment screw most of the way until I get a small freeflow. Then I tighten it until the freeflow just barely stops. This is all in the manual.

Now to the first stage. You don't really need a pin spanner, but it's nice to have. I have one. However, before I had one I used some seat of the pants engineering to remove the part. What I did is to drill a hole out of a piece of wood that is slightly bigger than the circumference you need. I then put a screw into the side of the piece of wood so that it goes into the hole from the side. Simply slide this over the 1st stage, and tighten the screw slightly and seat it into the spanner hole. Turn the wood.

Like I said, a pin spanner is nice I just didn't have time to get one that first time and wanted to do the service. Be careful if you do this as the screw could scratch the 1st stage. This I would care about since it could cause problems.

So, one way or another we have dealt with that side of the first stage. All the rest is easily disassembled with allen wrenches.

Actually there is one very important thing you need, and that is an airgun. That's probably the tool you'll use most in your shop, as it is used to dry all parts, to get the diaphragm out, and some other uses as well. I also didn't mention the IP gauge, but that is also a necessary tool. If you are crafty, you can make one for under ten bucks with hardware store parts.

A note of caution. The Apeks service manuals are floating around...get a hold of a copy, and don't even think about doing a service on an Apeks without a service kit. You need the HP seats. I personally wouldn't mind reusing the diaphragm, as it's made out of very tough hypalon. Looks like it was cut out from an inflateable boat! But the seats have to come from Apeks, and of course it's nice to have all the right O-rings and so on as well.

Obviously you'll also need some vinegar and some degreaser (I use Joy) and an ultrasonic cleaner is nice.

In my dive bag I carry some cristolube, a pin spanner a set of allens, a crescent, and two scuba tools. I also have a service kit for 1st and 2nd stage. I don't see any problem rebuilding one of these if I had a clean surface to work on, even on a boat.

I've read the airspeed press book a few times, and refer to it all the time. If there is anything you are unsure about or don't understand, don't ignore it.

Obviously this is all done at your own risk.

 

[ScoobieDooo]

Braunbehrens,
Thanks. I have the entire line of Apek's Power Point presentations that someone on this message board was kind enough to send me, plus the the service manuals for the TX's and ATX's. I personally have an ATX50.

Thanks for the info. I also want to keep the cover plate 'hand tightened' so of the need to remove it underwater ever becomes necessary, I can do so.

 

[Scubaroo]

Braunbehrens once bubbled...
Actually there is one very important thing you need, and that is an airgun.

If anyone's in the market for an airgun, DON'T get the ones selling on eBay for $9.99 - I guess the price should have been a warning hey. They're next to useless for regulator work - they're either on or off, and on means whatever your supplying reg's IP is at - in my case around 140psi, when you only need about 30-40psi.

Plus it leaks when plugged into a hose. I'll be keeping it for inflating air mattresses, but not for working on scuba gear. PeterBuilt sells a nice adjustable airgun that I should have bought instead the first time

 

[ScoobieDooo]

So do you feel that a sink makes an adequate device to test cracking pressure (in inches) versus a manometer or gauge to test such?

What can of job can I obtain using the sink vs tools?

 

[Stone]

ScoobieDooo once bubbled...
So do you feel that a sink makes an adequate device to test cracking pressure (in inches) versus a manometer or gauge to test such?

It depends on how level you keep your reg and how calibrated your eyes are. If your spec says "set between 1 and 1 1/2 inches H20", most people ought to be able make that estimation and a sink would be adequate.

For $50 - $60, I use the magnehelic more for convenience than accuracy. I doubt I can discern a difference of 1/8 inch H20 on a subjective breathing test.

If magehelics cost $200, I'd be using the sink.

 

[Genesis]

An inch of water is an inch of water, irrespective of how you measure it.

How much more accurate is it to use a gauge? Its LESS accurate! Why? Because cracking effort is what you're measuring here, and you are providing a negative bias (with your lungs) that is inconsistent. Using water, you have free air on the other side, and the stability of your hand guiding the test.

Just pay attention to exactly where in the housing your diaphram actually is.

The usual "spec" typically has a 1/2 to 1" tolerance anyway - which is way beyond YOUR tolerance with either a Magnahelic or water test.

I generally set my primary reg to 1/2-3/4" cracking effort (about the lowest I can go without freeflow problems) and backup(s) to 1" to 1-1/4". If I was not bungieing the backup I'd probably go 1-1/2", as that's more prone to freeflow dangling than bungied.

 

[ScoobieDooo]

OK sounds good...thx.