The "other" end of the DIR question

[jonnythan]

Not only is it not clear, it isn't true either.

JJ sits atop both organizations - how can you honestly say they are totally separate? What's more, he knowingly had the commercial entity trademark the common name of the techniques, through which Halcyon gains a competitive advantage and benefits financially.

While this is not definitive, note that on GUE's website, a search for Halcyon turns up 250 pages. Oxycheq = 0, DiveRite = 5. Of course, Halcyon and GUE are not related in any - yeah right...

No one ever said that Halcyon and GUE aren't related.

In your mind, DIR = Halcyon = GUE. That's fine with me.

 

[gj62]

No one ever said that Halcyon and GUE aren't related.

In your mind, DIR = Halcyon = GUE. That's fine with me.

Don't pretend to know my mind, I have a hard enough time. More accurately, I would say:

GUE = DIR methodology
Halcyon owns "DIR" trademark
JJ runs GUE and Halcyon

Two posts ago you said DIR was totally separate from Halcyon. I'm glad you realize your mistake...

 

[lamont]

That really is one of the core issues here, many DIR divers seem to feel compelled to proselytize to the non-DIR divers and that is just not appreciated and leads to much and perhaps most of the animosity toward DIR.

DIR related posts go smoother in the DIR section for the most part because non DIR divers stay out and if they follow the thread at all, they normally have the good sense, respect and decision making ability to refrain from posting reponses as they do not feel the compulsion to minister to the DIR types or attempt to get them to attone for their sins. You obviously can't say the same for DIR divers when it comes to a non DIR thread.

Can you point out where any DIR diver in this thread has been proselytizing? Can you point out where any DIR diver in this thread has been attempting to get people to atone for their sins? I may have missed it, but mostly what I read in this thread was DIR divers correcting statements like the one that you had to buy all Halcyon gear to be DIR.

The DIR zealot is a wonderful strawman to keep bashing over and over, but I haven't seen you or anyone else in this thread acually produce one.

 

[kalvyn]

I've also pointed out that the GUE leadership has a firm position (which you can choose to ignore, of course), that if I'm not DIR, a DIR diver shouldn't dive with me because I put you at risk and add stress to your dive. This has been publicly stated by JJ, and backed up by several GUE instructors, so the point cannot be argued.

Next time you're in the Puget Sound area, let's go diving. :butnhome:

Jimmie

 

[lamont]

Boogie - this has devolved into a semantic tangle.

Hey, choices always exist - and yes, you CHOOSE to be DIR.
But once you choose, by definition there are a number of things you MUST accept, or you really aren't DIR. DIS sounds like it grew out of the desire to adopt many of the fine principles embodied by DIR (but by no means were many of the created by DIR), but allow more personal choice to be involved.

According to JJ & MHK, to be DIR, you MUST wear rig your gear in a specific way (this includes guage positioning). As the founder and a key instructor, this speaks volumes about the program. Perhaps you know divers that call themselves DIR that allow for more flexibility, but that is not the official line. Both (JJ & MHK) are clear and on record on the point that if I am not rigged & trained as a DIR diver, they won't dive with me.

Of course DIR is more of a "system" than just a rigging technique - you can't have heard about DIR more than once without knowing this - but the rig, and their inflexibility regarding *my* rig - is certainly one of the most visible manifestations of the dogmatic principles that guide DIR.

Why are you so insecure about what JJ and MHK think about your rig? Why do you want to force them to accept you and to dive with you? Why can't you let them choose what buddies they will dive with and what gear their buddies are diving with?

 

[mjh]

Like so many on this post I believe DIR has a lot to offer and I like to adapt parts that make sense to me. Like others I get a little tired of the “attitude” from a few DIR divers, being in the Northwest there are a lot of them.

In fact on a recent Caribbean trip we dove w/husband and wife where the husband was “Mr. DIR”. We were diving a small boat, 8 divers, and he launched into all the advantages of DIR. Well 40minutes into the first dive we are drifting along and my wife grabs my fin and starts pointing. I start looking for a shark or something and but all I see is the DIR couple. Then I notice the wife is giving him the OUT OF AIR signal and he is just looking at her like a dumb puppy. Finally she grabs his reg, he freaks out and starts heading to the surface and she has to basically stick his backup in his mouth and hold him down.

On the surface we all could hear very clearly the wife saying “WHAT THE H*** DID YOU THINK I WAS SIGNALING?”. Let’s just say it was a very quite surface interval.

 

[gj62]

Next time you're in the Puget Sound area, let's go diving. :butnhome:

Jimmie

Thanks for the invite - I'd love too - I dove up there about 12 years ago, right around the last time I was in my drysuit!

 

[gj62]

Why are you so insecure about what JJ and MHK think about your rig? Why do you want to force them to accept you and to dive with you? Why can't you let them choose what buddies they will dive with and what gear their buddies are diving with?

Oh please, get over the insecure thing - that's a BS response everytime...

I used both JJ and MHK to illustrate that the LEADERSHIP of GUE and key proponents of DIR have specifically stated that this is an "all or nothing" proposition. I chose to speak in the first person, but I could have said, "they would not dive with a non-DIR diver", rather than, "they would not dive with me".

 

[dweeb]

WHAT!!!!!!

Could you show us these analytical facts they have used to elimanate personal vaguaries? :toilet_cl

The elements of DIR were developed by analyzing diving mishaps, and seeking to avoid repeating them.
Many elements, like the BP/wing, are based on simple
physics - center of mass versus center of buoyancy. Many elements are aimed at eliminating failure points.

 

[lamont]

Not only is it not clear, it isn't true either.

JJ sits atop both organizations - how can you honestly say they are totally separate? What's more, he knowingly had the commercial entity trademark the common name of the techniques, through which Halcyon gains a competitive advantage and benefits financially.

While this is not definitive, note that on GUE's website, a search for Halcyon turns up 250 pages. Oxycheq = 0, DiveRite = 5. Of course, Halcyon and GUE are not related in any - yeah right...

Who cares if they are all intertwined? If you don't like it go out and buy Oxycheq, FredT or DiveRite gear.