The "other" end of the DIR question

[Scuba]

Most people seem to miss one thing. What sets DIR apart from most other diving paradigms is that it analytically examines all aspects of diving, and seeks objective optimization, with no consideration for the emotional vaguaries of 'personal preference.' Do they have the perfect system? No, but at least they're looking for it.
That's what it's all about - optimization.

It's not quite so simple. The problem with this argument is that in order to optimize a dive, you must consider all specifics and make a subjective decision This includes: participant divers, mission objective, environment, available tools, and so on. Along with sub categories thereof. When this is done as objectively as possible you will find that a gain in optimizing one aspect often results in a loss in optimization of another. Compromises have to be made. When the final decision is made you end up with a subjective, biased system. Others will agree and disagree with specific components and the overall system.

The DIR system is no different than others in this respect. The main difference is that others advise divers as to the choices they have - leaving the final decision to the individual. The DIR system demands strict adherance to its chosen preferences.

 

[Albion]

Most people seem to miss one thing. What sets DIR apart from most other diving paradigms is that it analytically examines all aspects of diving, and seeks objective optimization, with no consideration for the emotional vaguaries of 'personal preference.'

WHAT!!!!!!

Could you show us these analytical facts they have used to elimanate personal vaguaries? :toilet_cl

 

[padiscubapro]

I said it was beneficial *for me* in an openwater environment. I don't do lobster hunting.

I never claimed it was the right gear choice in absolutely every single environment and that anyone who wasn't diving that way was going to die. I actually read the previous post on lobster hunting and made a mental note that it was a good example of an exception where DIR gear config isn't optimal.

If you find DIR zealots who tell you that your jacket BC is going to kill you annoying, you understand exactly how annoyed this thread makes me when words I've written are taken out of context and used to portray me as a DIR zealot. If you're going to argue that way, I'll skip bothering to respond...

I was just pointing out, something that alot of divers do to show with a simple example that NO gear config can cover ALL scenarios.. Which at its heart is what DIR is.. All the choices have been made and this is the way you dive all the time.. (other than some typical gear additions like DPVs). No room per personal or situational modifications..

The DIR system works well in alot of situations, it doesn;t work well for the "working" diver who need to move his gear around to allow certain tasks to be done.. If you are just looking around, a DIR config may work...

For the real serious wrecker that likes to take things home with them.. you need room for your, saws, hammer, chisels, crowbars ect.. for the real big jobs maybe even dragging a broco with you..

for the serious spear fisherman, you want to move gear around to limit the posibility of metal to metal noise (2 tanks slug on one side is a good source of noise) and possibly you need to lay in ambush....

I already mentioned a person who needs his/her best arm free to reach into things...

I can continue to go on... but I think people will get the picture.. I think it comes down to 2 types of people:
Those that do and those that watch ... or
those that lead and those that follow...

I remember way back when to the days I dove a seatec manta in shorts and a t-shirt, with a single al 80 and 3-4 lbs of removable weight.. trim was never an issue since the only time air was in the jacket was on the surface... Those were the fun days...

 

[IndigoBlue]

GUE's version of DIR with their Halcyon gear may very well be obsolete already, due to some of the innovations of side-mounting for cave diving.

Why get into something that is verly likely obsolete already?

 

[chickdiver]

75% of cave diving does not involve side mounting. DIR addresses more types of diving than that which sidemounting is required for. As always, it's about having the CORRECT TOOLS for the job at hand.....

 

[DA Aquamaster]

Actually, it lasted for more than 100 posts. Also, I wasn't asking for arguments for and against. I was asking for reasons why non-DIR divers chose to not be DIR. (although I also appreciate most of the DIR-divers' quote in here too). Incidently, this thread started when I saw anouther thread ask DIR divers why they went down (or up) that road. That thread was going flame-free so I even stole much of the wording from that original post. Thanks for asking though.

I noticed that the thread started off nicely and that the DIR types stayed home which I thought was appropriate as it really was, by definition and wording, clearly not a question directed at DIR divers.

But then, perhaps inevitably, a DIR diver either felt threatened or could just not refrain from interjecting their opinion and the whole thing has degenerated into the same old DIR versus anti-DIR arguments that we have all heard at least a hundred times.

That really is one of the core issues here, many DIR divers seem to feel compelled to proselytize to the non-DIR divers and that is just not appreciated and leads to much and perhaps most of the animosity toward DIR.

DIR related posts go smoother in the DIR section for the most part because non DIR divers stay out and if they follow the thread at all, they normally have the good sense, respect and decision making ability to refrain from posting reponses as they do not feel the compulsion to minister to the DIR types or attempt to get them to attone for their sins. You obviously can't say the same for DIR divers when it comes to a non DIR thread.

Maybe we need a Non-DIR, or "Everybody But DIR" forum to get the point across.

 

[DA Aquamaster]

IB - I think I'm going to call you Indigo Bunny from now on. As in the Energizer Bunny - you just keep going, and going, and going...

You remind me of one of those children's toys - the inflatable clown with the dorky grin. Even though you keep getting punched in the face, you still show up, look stupid, and get hit again. Eventually, if I were you, I'd stay down, but no... for whatever reason, you just have a pathological need to provoke people... on stuff you clearly know nothing about.

It's amusing, really. How much cave diving have you done lately? I would be willing to bet VERY good money that it's less than Chickdiver.

Grow up boogie. If you have to reduce yourself to character assasinations you are obviously out of legitamate arguments and we are all better off if you just leave your keyboard alone.

 

[Boogie711]

Grow up boogie. If you have to reduce yourself to character assasinations you are obviously out of legitamate arguments and we are all better off if you just leave your keyboard alone.

DA - thanks for your comments on this issue. Have you read many of the other threads this particular individual has participated in? Especially on the topic at hand?

 

[gj62]

If you really that badly want me to make a decision to not dive DIR, then show me some way in which making that choice would benefit me and my diving. I'm open to suggestions.

Lamont, I have not anywhere said that I think *you* should or shouldn't dive DIR. What I have said is why *I* don't dive DIR, and don't recommend it for rec divers.

I've also pointed out that the GUE leadership has a firm position (which you can choose to ignore, of course), that if I'm not DIR, a DIR diver shouldn't dive with me because I put you at risk and add stress to your dive. This has been publicly stated by JJ, and backed up by several GUE instructors, so the point cannot be argued.

Frankly, I think that's a bunch of horse droppings, but everyone is entitled to their opinions, and if someone doesn't want to dive with me because of where I wear my guages, well, that says enough about that person that I don't want to dive with them...

 

[gj62]

GJ - here's where I'm confused. You maintain "those decisions have already been made for you."

Here's my point - no, they haven't. No one makes decisions for me.

C'mon Boogie - don't clip my sentences to help make your point. What I said was, "However, no matter how skilled a DIR diver you are, those decisions have already been made for you and you have no say in the matter". Yes, you have the option of diving DIR or not - I never said otherwise. What I did say was that as DIR, you have no choice in how you rig and what style (not brand) of equipment you use...