The New KISS Sidewinder is a Pretty Cool Unit!

[cerich]

Edd is a friend, so is Richard.

That said..if you are interested in a new CCR, and into sidemount, you NEED to check out the new sidewinder from Kiss.

I am not getting paid to say or push it...

It's a very clear , innovative and compact unit with great usability and capability.

I don't sell rebreather stuff... so would prefer you stay OC and buy LOTS and LOTS of deep 6 regs, but if you must go to the dark side, take a look at the Sidewinder before putting any money on the table

 

[Richard FDC]

Thanks Chris! ...so, as we were discussing. Wait, here's my disclaimer Dive Rite buys a banner on my website and the people there are my friends. I got a great deal on an O2ptima last year and chose to buy it. I made the decision because 1. it's made by Dive Rite, 2. Local service, 3. It's nice and compact 4. It's virtually caustic cocktail proof. 5. Some of my friends dive them. I've done demos on a couple other units and buoyancy control was the biggest issue. It was the same during my O2ptima training. It was like learning to dive all over again. I'm not selling the O2Ptima but my experience diving the Sidewinder was very good. The work of breathing is very good. The unit trims out very easily and buoyancy control took no work. It's a pretty cool unit!

 

[scubadada]

Does a threat count??? Just kidding! No threats were leveled and Richard didn't even ask me to post back here. I just hate to see people derail threads just because they can. If we banned everyone who has a financial interest in Scuba diving and equipment, we'd be a very, very small forum.

That doesn't mean folks should not disclose their potential conflicts of interest, does it?

 

[The Chairman]

That doesn't mean folks should not disclose their potential conflicts of interest, does it?

I think they should and he pretty much did in his first response (post #3???). He's got his website in his signature line as well, and a simple perusal of that shows that he's in advertising, just like me. This thread is about the rebreather: not Richard. I can't blame him for feeling defensive... as some people have been trying to make him out to be some kind of evil. Let's get back to the rebreather.

 

[nakatomi]

Let's get back to the rebreather.

Since you asked, here`s my opinion regarding this rebreather.

To me Mike Young of Kiss is a great visionary and he comes up with absolutely stunning ideas.
Like the sidekick which had a revolutionary concept with the scrubber surrounded by the counterlung, the sidewinder shows some very interesting design traits too..
Mike Young is, again in my opinion, a great inventor.

On the other hand, this is also my humble opinion, the build quality of the units and the choice of materials is absolutely mediocre.
The quality of some of the parts is comparable with Home Depot hardware and not in any way adequate for a high end (and highly priced) life-support machine.

I'm very familiar with the sidekick and some of the engineering faux-pas and I'm also somewhat familier with the sidewinder since I took a class in the corresponding backmount unit.
During my class the unit partially flooded due to non existant deburring of a part in the factory and obviously non-existant quality control.
Several of my friends use(d) Kiss sidekick units which are notorious (at least the units shipped in the first 2 years) for having semi-flooded and failing O2 sensors and counterlung issues.
Once again, the concept is great, the choice of materials and some of the practical design is absolutely not.
I would stay away from anything other than a Kiss Classic which was/is an awesome unit.

If someone absolutely feels the urge to get a rebreather, or in this case a sidemount version, I do highly recommend to get something that is designed and built properly.
I would absolutely want to look elsewhere, for example towards the SF2.

Next as to the trend of people getting pushed into a sidemount rebreather in the first place, that's just something I can't agree with at all either.
Having a sidemount rebreather totally restricts the possible use of bailout, even with a semi backmount unit like the sidewinder.
Backmount would work for 99% of the users and would benefit them much more in the long run.

 

[Richard FDC]

If someone absolutely feels the urge to get a rebreather, or in this case a sidemount version, I do highly recommend to get something that is designed and built properly..

That's a pretty strong statement. Are you saying the Sidewinder is not designed and built properly? Please give the readers a rundown on your reasons for saying that. And please tell us about your RECENT experience with the current production models. I know you have said you have some limited experience with the Sidekick but when did you last dive a Sidewinder and what is your hands on experience with that machine that would make you infer that it is not designed and built properly?

Oh....and I'm not getting paid to say this.

 

[nakatomi]

That's a pretty strong statement. Are you saying the Sidewinder is not designed and built properly? Please give the readers a rundown on your reasons for saying that. And please tell us about your RECENT experience with the current production models. I know you have said you have some limited experience with the Sidekick but when did you last dive a Sidewinder and what is your hands on experience with that machine that would make you infer that it is not designed and built properly?

Oh....and I'm not getting paid to say this.

Pretty much everything about the sidekick and the Kiss Spirit (which essentialy is the sidewinder that I'm familiar with) can and should be improved.
And I have no reason to believe that it has all been made perfect by now and that no corners will be cut in the future.
I'm not going to do the job of Kiss and do a rundown of the materials, the engineering and what can and should be improved with their units.

Let me just say that loop hoses should not fall off the DSV/BOV or head, and they don't when proper material is used.
Also the loop attachment should prevent the exhale loop on the inhale side and vice versa, without having to color code the hoses.
Other manufacturers have come up with means to prevent that from happening.
Brass screws on a rebreather that is explosed to salt water? Is that really the best way to engineer?

Cells should be placed in the head so they don't get wet, water traps should prevent them from getting excessive moisture.
Not so much in the sidekick.

And as to the spirit/sidewinder, I can absolutely spot cheap and thin-walled plastic parts with seams when I see them, as opposed to one-piece durable Delrin. If a part on my rebreather looks like something straight out of Lowes plumbing department it just makes me wonder.
Having the lid of the scrubber nearly pop off makes me wonder too, an additional thread or two wouldn't have hurt.

Me personally I would prefer my rebreathers to be designed and implemented in the best way possible but maybe that's just me?

Anyway, all this is just my opinion, feel free to ignore it if you don't like it. And I'm not getting paid either, nor am I affiliated with anyone making or selling rebreathers.

 

[Richard FDC]

Ok, so then please answer the question. When did you dive a current production Sidewinder and discover all these design and manufacturing flaws?

 

[teknitroxdiver]

That's a pretty strong statement. Are you saying the Sidewinder is not designed and built properly? Please give the readers a rundown on your reasons for saying that. And please tell us about your RECENT experience with the current production models. I know you have said you have some limited experience with the Sidekick but when did you last dive a Sidewinder and what is your hands on experience with that machine that would make you infer that it is not designed and built properly?

Oh....and I'm not getting paid to say this.

One problem is that there's zero water trap before the exhale scrubber.

 

[Richard FDC]

Since I'm not an expert I've tried to not make statements on the internet that will be taken as fact. I've had a long conversation with Edd about the scrubbers, water, flooding, etc. The way the unit is designed with two scrubbers he has actually had one scrubber completely flood and was still diving the unit. Jason Richards did a good job of addressing that over on Cave Diver's forum. I would suggest to anybody with questions to just give Edd a call. He's got more experience with the unit than almost anybody and he doesn't deal in assumptions, conjecture, and leaping to conclusions.