The New Dive Rite Optima CM - My 30 Hour Review

[Superlyte27]

I don't think anyone questions your ability on appraising how this unit performs at depth, or in comparing its WOB with the WOB of other units. I think what others are trying to point out is that at present there is a lack of any independent testing of the WOB of this unit to ensure it meets the minimum performance envelopes as determined by the relevant test standard e.g. EN 14143. This is important information. Until it passes, we simply do not know how this thing breathes at depth.

After passing one of these test standards then its industry actors like yourself who can provide invaluable nuanced analysis of comparing its WOB against the other units on the market. But until it can do this, its WOB performance is simply unknown as a life safety system and unfortunately it also quite rightly precludes it from being sold in some markets.

I understand what they're saying. But many of us understand that some of these tests are useless. I remember talking to a manufacturer about a particular CCR a few years ago about how their CCR was the only one with a CE cert. It broke his heart when I told him I didn't care about CE because MERICA!

 

[Schwob]

when I told him I didn't care about CE because MERICA!

Yes, but, ... precisely in part because it is such a light and travel friendly RB, it may be very interesting to folks all over, including those looking at such tests, meaningful or not, so, ... presumably at some point units would be submitted to such testing despite MERICA - or? I mean you did not mean to express a categorical no here on behalf of Dive Rite - or is it just that? I am not insinuating, I am asking as I can‘t tell what I should read into your reply...

 

[scubadada]

Test dives as deep as 110' or so. But, normal, relaxed RMVs...

I suppose it could be the case that an S620Ti would not breathe as nicely at a normal RMV, but overtake and surpass a G260 when the RMV goes up to an equivalent of major exertion at some significant depth. However, I personally am perfectly content to stipulate that as a possibility and still stick with the G260s...

Oh, and no, the only time I ever felt like I was really pushing a reg was trying to keep up with my deep/wreck instructor, on the bottom of the local quarry that was around 40 degrees. It did not take long for that reg to freeze and start to freeflow, so I still did not have the experience of noticing a feeling of increased WOB.

Hi @stuartv

So, little objective data. You may remember the thread you started in 2017 discussing the ScubaLabs regulator testing. I posted a summary of the four tests Latest ScubaLabs reg test - huh? The tests cover a variety of high RMV (1.32-2.63 cu ft/min) at 132-198 fsw. The results reported was somewhat changed with <1 J/L given a 5, 1.1-1.5 J/L given a 4. 1.51-2.25 J/L given a 3, 2.26=3.0 J/L given a 2, and >3 J/L given a 1. It is said that a diver may be able to discern a difference of 0.5 J/L.

The Scubapro MK25EVO/G260 was tested in 2015 and scored 5/5/5/5. The Scubapro MK25EVO/S620Ti was tested in 2017 and scored 5/5/5/5. It was tested as deep as 300 ft and had a WOB of 1.12 J/L, a 4. So...I would say that both of these regs are probably quite good, If you can tell the difference between the 2, all the more power to you. To each their own.

Personally, I dive a MK25EVO/S600, I find it more than up to the chore.

 

[Brad_Horn]

I understand what they're saying. But many of us understand that some of these tests are useless. I remember talking to a manufacturer about a particular CCR a few years ago about how their CCR was the only one with a CE cert. It broke his heart when I told him I didn't care about CE because MERICA!

If you think the testing is useless, is that due to a lack of understanding, of what the testing is telling you?

For an example of what you don't know about this rebreather and its impact on your own safety, have a read through of Gavin Anthony's very good presentation on rebreather testing, and where the standards originated from from pg219 onwards https://www.diversalertnetwork.org/files/Tech_Proceedings_Feb2010.pdf The NEDU perspective is also there as well.

Needing to have CE certification, in order to sell/instruct on/dive a rebreather, is a very different thing from still being able to benefit from at least an expected known minimum standard of performance.

 

[Superlyte27]

Yes, but, ... precisely in part because it is such a light and travel friendly RB, it may be very interesting to folks all over, including those looking at such tests, meaningful or not, so, ... presumably at some point units would be submitted to such testing despite MERICA - or? I mean you did not mean to express a categorical no here on behalf of Dive Rite - or is it just that? I am not insinuating, I am asking as I can‘t tell what I should read into your reply...

I have no idea whether it's been tested or not. I know the Optima is available throughout the world though.

 

[rjack321]

Yes, but, ... precisely in part because it is such a light and travel friendly RB, it may be very interesting to folks all over, including those looking at such tests, meaningful or not, so, ... presumably at some point units would be submitted to such testing despite MERICA - or? I mean you did not mean to express a categorical no here on behalf of Dive Rite - or is it just that? I am not insinuating, I am asking as I can‘t tell what I should read into your reply...

The Kiss units don't have any CE ratings or formal WOB testing either. At least some of them its highly dependent on your personal setup as well. Still selling like crazy as fast as Mike can make them. Why should he submit them for testing? Tests doesn't help his already abundant sales plus what if they fail some of the positioning requirements? He has to explain how that's a design sacrifice you're stuck with if you want to shove yourself in some really tiny places. Some of the sidemount units are never going to meet CE positional obligations.

 

[Superlyte27]

I have a sidewinder. Took me almost 6 months to get it. I like it a lot. Mike is crazy busy churning them out.

 

[Schwob]

@Superlyte27 @rjack321 : Well, I am reading and observing and definitely not having done enough of either to form my own opinion... and it really also takes a whole lot more getting wet for me anyway. Thanks for replying ... and I stay tuned.

 

[silent running]

I understand what they're saying. But many of us understand that some of these tests are useless. I remember talking to a manufacturer about a particular CCR a few years ago about how their CCR was the only one with a CE cert. It broke his heart when I told him I didn't care about CE because MERICA!

I think many of us in MERICA find fault with the EU standards. The inability of any MCCR to get CE because of a lack of automated O2 addition and control, is a perfect example of nanny state stupidity.

Though I find many aspects of CE to be unnecessary or even counterproductive to diver safety/competence and systems reliability, WOB testing certainly is important, especially given the newer gas density guidelines.

WOB testing is the most important test of all, because WOB obviously involves every breath you take from the beginning to the end of every dive. Scrubber duration, O2 control, sensor and electronics validation may become issues during a dive, but probably will not, unless you are poorly trained or badly distracted, things which are diver performance issues and mostly within our control. WOB is a baseline we cannot affect, but which affects us every second we try to sustain life in the most human hostile environment on the planet.

 

[JonG1]

I think many of us in MERICA find fault with the EU standards. The inability of any MCCR to get CE because of a lack of automated O2 addition and control, is a perfect example of nanny state stupidity.

Triton is CM MCCR and CE marked.

Though I find many aspects of CE to be unnecessary or even counterproductive to diver safety/competence and systems reliability, WOB testing certainly is important, especially given the newer gas density guidelines.

WOB testing is the most important test of all, because WOB obviously involves every breath you take from the beginning to the end of every dive. Scrubber duration, O2 control, sensor and electronics validation may become issues during a dive, but probably will not, unless you are poorly trained or badly distracted, things which are diver performance issues and mostly within our control. WOB is a baseline we cannot affect, but which affects us every second we try to sustain life in the most human hostile environment on the planet.