The Mares & Dacor HUB

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3. The reg is integrated into the BC, and actually routs under and into the BC itself to another connection point...sort of like an outlet - Horrible idea. More failure points and very difficult to take out for replacement, etc. In the review posted above, its states that one hose feeds both regs...not smart at all. If that hose goes bad, both regs are dead instead of just one. What were they thinking.

Single tank, 1st stage with both main dv and octo on it (normal recreational setup) - hose fails - no air on either very rapidly. No better or worse.

I don't think you are understanding the point he was trying to make. On a normal regulator setup, you have TWO LP hoses coming off your first stage, one for your primary and one for your octo. The HUB is different. It has 1 HP hose and 1 LP Hose that feed to a central point located in the posterior of the HUB. This will then give off two hoses to your two regs. If that 1 LP hose from your 1st stage fails, then you will have no air period. On a normal setup, if one fails, you still have your octo.

Thomas
 
jonnythan, thanks for posting that...I had played with one in a shop, but never bothered to research the internals.

It looks to me like the tank connects to the first stage and then there are 2 hoses coming off the first stage. These things then feed into some sort of a hub (hence the name?) in the small of the back and another lp hose then connects the hub to the inflator. Another lp hose comes off the other side and connects to one of the second stages. Where is the other hose? Is there another hose aggregator in the pocket that feeds both the octo and the primary? I am only seeing 2 hoses going in and 2 coming out of that back mounted "hub" device. Are they both lp and the hp hose is routed a different way that we can't see from the picture?

Anyway, the point is this thing is convoluted beyond the range of most open circuit gear...I don't get it... Someone else mentioned a good point of all the added hose connections and hence o-rings as potential failure points. I am not sure you would even know if something inside that back piece was bubbling since it would probably be hidden from you and your buddy's view.

I found a "technical" manual for it...page 9 starts the English section...
http://217.169.126.181/pdf/HUBMares.pdf

Although, I found this URL to be quite more descriptive (warning - Coke alert).
http://www.acronymfinder.com/af-query.asp?String=exact&Acronym=hub
 
drizzt117 once bubbled...


I don't think you are understanding the point he was trying to make. On a normal regulator setup, you have TWO LP hoses coming off your first stage, one for your primary and one for your octo. The HUB is different. It has 1 HP hose and 1 LP Hose that feed to a central point located in the posterior of the HUB. This will then give off two hoses to your two regs. If that 1 LP hose from your 1st stage fails, then you will have no air period. On a normal setup, if one fails, you still have your octo.

Thomas

Hi

I understand that but my point was that if one of the two LP hoses fails then all your air is gone anyway unless you can isolate the leak . Good advert for using twins I suppose!

Ian
 
O-ring once bubbled...
jonnythan, thanks for posting that...I had played with one in a shop, but never bothered to research the internals.

It looks to me like the tank connects to the first stage and then there are 2 hoses coming off the first stage. These things then feed into some sort of a hub (hence the name?) in the small of the back and another lp hose then connects the hub to the inflator. Another lp hose comes off the other side and connects to one of the second stages. Where is the other hose? Is there another hose aggregator in the pocket that feeds both the octo and the primary? I am only seeing 2 hoses going in and 2 coming out of that back mounted "hub" device. Are they both lp and the hp hose is routed a different way that we can't see from the picture?

Look in the octo pocket.. see the three hose protectors and the metal bits? That's a splitter. So the route for LP breathing air goes tank -> first stage -> hose -> hub -> hose -> splitter -> hose -> regulator. No better or worse than a conventional setup, right?, right? There are three hoses, six O-rings, and two steel air routing devices between the first stage and your mouth. Compare this with a conventional setup which has two o-rings, one hose, and no air routing devices.

What advantages do you get from the HUB that manage to negate these failure points AND the octo stuffing?

What advantages does the HUB give you at ALL? Certainly not reliability, streamlining, or versatility.

As for the SPG and inflator.. look back at the hub. Coming off the bottom of it to the right is another hose protector.. you can see it extend under the SPG face. This is the SPG hose. The hose coming horizontally off the right top portion of the hub is the inflator hose.
 
Ian,

At least we agree on a couple of things.


If one hose were to to say get a nice sized hole in it while underwater, you can still breath off the other one long enough to do a fairly controlled ascent. You can even try to stop the flow of air from the offending hose by folding it like a garden hose. This will most likely not stop the flow completely, only slow it. If the main hose that goes to the "hub" goes out, you're screwed...either reg will not work.


A few other points:


1. Look at all the plastic buckles and quick connections. - All failure points

Most BCDs have plastic quick releases - they are no more of a potential failure point than metal ones.

True, most BCs do have quick releases (be they metal or plastic), and that's why most BCs are not reliable. I used to have a BC with such connections, and guess what, they did break.




2. Not streamlined at all. Look how wide and bulky the rig is.

No worse (actually better) than other jackets.

Compared to other jackets, it's probably average. But, compare a jacket to a BP and Harness. No contest as to which is more streamlined.




5. The SPG is also stuffed into a pocket. - Not a good place.

Only when you're not using it (i.e. out of the water) but I will concede it's not the best design.

Remember, this BC is marketed to people who are new to SCUBA. They most likely do not check their gauge as often as they should anyway. With the SPG stuffed into a pocket somewhere, they are even less likely too check their air often enough.




6. Look at the "inflator". - It will not be as effective. Plus, try to replace that mechanism on a boat when it fails. It a regular inflator ever fails, I can easily replace it in 5 - 10 minutes.

Actually the inflator is on a quick release and can be replaced in under a minute (assuming you have a spare!)

Exactly. All the people I know who have a save a dive kit have a regular inflator hose as a replacement. You would defiently need to rember to bring a spare. The HUB inflator is too complicated, simpler is better.




As far as this think being a deathtrap, there are just so many points of failure. If I knew someone that was diving one, I would constantly worry about something malfunctioning on it. I think the HUB just makes things much more complicated than they should be. That is not a good thing, ever. The fact that you could also get a much, much better setup for less is certainly a reason to avoid this setup.

I'm sure some people really like it but, if they were to really sit down and analyze the system logically, they would realize all the problems inherent in the design.

I don't think it's very responsible for companies to put out products that have so many problems, then market them to new divers who just don't know any better.
 
All the complexities and none of the advantages...I would get a rebreather before I would get one of these things.
 
At the end of the day I really like and trust mine and that's what's important to me and those I dive with.

Would I buy one brand new at full retail - not a hope (I paid £350 including brand new guages and service thrown in.

Later on I'll get a bp/wing setup as well.

Ian
 
One thing I notice looking through the threads is that the bp/wing setup seems to be pretty well standard in the US even for novices whereas here the jacket style is more popular.

Any thoughts as to why this might be?

Ian
 
Ian Wigg once bubbled...
One thing I notice looking through the threads is that the bp/wing setup seems to be pretty well standard in the US even for novices whereas here the jacket style is more popular.

Any thoughts as to why this might be?

Ian
Two words: Uncle and Pug
 
O-ring once bubbled...
All the complexities and none of the advantages...I would get a rebreather before I would get one of these things.

I know...A hub with an integrated closed circuit rebreather! And...maybe attached fins...A built in scooter?...
 

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