The Great local dive shop vs. online debate

[pasley]

5615mike once bubbled...
I bought a set of gear for me and my wife - BC, Reg, octo, guages and some clips. LP saved me almost half of what LSD was going to charge me. They told me that I was paying less than their cost and they could not do any better.................They shut their doors about 7 months ago. We have lost 2 of the 4 LDS's we had 2 years ago. Go figure.

Question, did you go to the LDS and use their expertise and shop for the gear you eventually bought online. Did you try it on, or out in their store?

2nd Question, how is the online store pricing for the air fills?

 

[5615mike]

pasley once bubbled...


Question, did you go to the LDS and use their expertise and shop for the gear you eventually bought online. Did you try it on, or out in their store?


2nd Question, how is the online store pricing for the air fills?

No, I did not waste their time trying on their gear and buying elsewhere. I did my own homework on what my wife and I were looking for and ordered it. I took a chance on sizes as I am a XXL and my wife is XS. Neither of which was stocked by LDS. I did pay my LDS for training a few years ago and bought my wetsuit from them. I gave them every opportunity to at least get close to the pricing but they could not.

Spoken like a real life dive shop owner! This issue has been threaded to death but I will add my .02 worth. Don't throw me under the bus because I choose to do things that don't support your business. I did not have any part of your decision to hang your own shingle and go into the Dive Shop business if in fact you are (making an assumption here.......I know it's dangerous). Those risk issues are part of doing business. Nothing in life is guaranteed. Don't preach to me about how we need to support our LDS or they will all be gone. I know it's an unfortunate situation but I did not create this problem. Manufactures are as much to blame for this problem as the end user and you can't blame the end user. We are all just trying to buy our chosen products at the best possible price. Do you shop at Wal-Mart, Home Depot, Lowes? How many local hardware stores do you think they have put out of business across the country. I assure you it is in the double digit thousands. This critical problem is not unique to the dive industry. Every industry providing a product has these problems. Ask anyone ins business. Everyone complains about how they can purchase products much cheeper over the internet and local business' can not compete.

I don't have the answer but neither do you. Insisting that I should pay an additional $1500 for what I purchased just to help my LDS is rediculous and just this side of insane....IMO

 

[pasley]

5615mike once bubbled...
No, I did not waste their time trying on their gear and buying elsewhere. I did my own homework on what my wife and I were looking for and ordered it.

No offense meant. It was not my intent to accuse, I was just asking a question.

I think that you would agree that you, who did the honorable thing and did their own research without going into the dive shop to ask questions, and/or try it on or out are in the minority of the population. For this you are to be commended.

5615mike once bubbled...

Spoken like a real life dive shop owner!

Actually, I am a business owner of a Real Estate Brokerage, not a dive shop. I am, however experienced in clients using my expertise, and then making the deal through Uncle whoever or a less than full service shop to save some money (after taking 3 or 4 days of my time). So I know this issue from a different angle.

5615mike once bubbled... Manufactures are as much to blame for this problem as the end user and you can't blame the end user. [/B]

Yes I agree the policy of the mfg are part of the problem. Their minim order quantities and required annual volume are part of the problem.

Yes I do shop at the larger stores. In my area Sport Chalet is one such store which is 1 mile from my house. It offers a staff who are all certified divers and most of which are also either DM or DI qualified, along with a decent selection, clean environment, and a neat uncluttered store. In addition, their size allows them to buy in quantity at a discount. They are in short my LDS.

But you also have to agree, that our sport will not be much fun if all the LDS in your area close their doors. There are some things you just can't do over the internet.

And no, I don’t have all the answers. But I do choose to buy my products at stores that ARE authorized dealers of ALL the merchandise they sell and where both the Store and MFG Both stand behind the product with warranty. LP is, according to them, not an authorized dealer for all the merchandise they sell. They tell you up front that not everything they sell will come with English instructions (what does that tell you?) or may not have a warranty from the mfg. They call that gray market merchandise.

 

[5615mike]

pasley once bubbled...

No offense meant. It was not my intent to accuse, I was just asking a question.

I think that you would agree that you, who did the honorable thing and did their own research without going into the dive shop to ask questions, and/or try it on or out are in the minority of the population. For this you are to be commended.


Actually, I am a business owner of a Real Estate Brokerage, not a dive shop. I am, however experienced in clients using my expertise, and then making the deal through Uncle whoever or a less than full service shop to save some money (after taking 3 or 4 days of my time). So I know this issue from a different angle.


Yes I agree the policy of the mfg are part of the problem. Their minim order quantities and required annual volume are part of the problem.

Yes I do shop at the larger stores. In my area Sport Chalet is one such store which is 1 mile from my house. It offers a staff who are all certified divers and most of which are also either DM or DI qualified, along with a decent selection, clean environment, and a neat uncluttered store. In addition, their size allows them to buy in quantity at a discount. They are in short my LDS.

But you also have to agree, that our sport will not be much fun if all the LDS in your area close their doors. There are some things you just can't do over the internet.

And no, I don’t have all the answers. But I do choose to buy my products at stores that ARE authorized dealers of ALL the merchandise they sell and where both the Store and MFG Both stand behind the product with warranty. LP is, according to them, not an authorized dealer for all the merchandise they sell. They tell you up front that not everything they sell will come with English instructions (what does that tell you?) or may not have a warranty from the mfg. They call that gray market merchandise.

Ok Pasley, I got your point, I think. I am also in the service industry, Commercial Insurance. I as well have had many use me for my expertise over a course of three or four months, not days, so I know exactly what you mean. Then in essence you are doing someonelses job for them and not getting the business. It sucks. I know but that will never change. These tactics have been used for centuries so we can't change that. You just do the best job you can and hope you get paid for it.

I agree, it is a shame that we are loosing many LDS. Very sad indeed that those business owners have had to close their doors only to have to try again...... possibly in another industry. My question to you is this......If you were in the same situation as I was two years ago, would you have spent twice the money at the LDS...... that's an additional $1250, not $1500 as I stated before, I looked it up, rather than purchase from LP and accept their warranty which from what I know of it is about as good as the mfg. At those prices, I can afford to take the chance that LP does not honor their warranty.....which I doubt will happen with all the people on this board who have talked about having very good relationships with LP when dealing with warranties.....as long as you send in the warranty info and if you don't do that you will have trouble getting anyone to honor the work. Now I know mfg warranties are important to you......Authorized Dealers are important to you and supporting your LDS is very important.......but is it worth $1250? I sincerely doubt it unless your made of money.

I know exactly what point it is you are tying to make and I do agree with you to a point but why should I or you or anyone else spend twice the money to support a business rather than supporting their own financial wherewithall. This is the essence of capitolism......economic model of supply and demand. I could just stay at home and burn my money if I want to.....kinda like gambling for me....so I just don't do it.

Anyway, this debate can and has been debated by many who are more qualified than you or I. I support the LDS when I can. When they want to charge or HAVE TO charge me twice as much for products just to survive to have the ability to provide me with a needed service down the road......air and tech......then I have a problem with that. I look at this to be kin to hidden higher taxes. We support those who are not able to support themselves in their chosen industry..........IMO.

 

[OkieDiver]

I believe one of the stores you were refering to was located at 71st/Memeorial. They were known for selling above suggested retail and then "discounting" to suggested retail. I've heard they went out of business due to the owner's legal problems. Although I never purchased anything from them, it's a shame to lose an LDS.

 

[5615mike]

OkieDiver once bubbled...
I believe one of the stores you were refering to was located at 71st/Memeorial. They were known for selling above suggested retail and then "discounting" to suggested retail. I've heard they went out of business due to the owner's legal problems. Although I never purchased anything from them, it's a shame to lose an LDS.

OkieDiver

Yes, we are talking about the same location. Island Quest is gone and I heard the same thing regarding the owners legal probelms. Had to do with some students. You can use your imagination on that one. Hi Performance also is out of business. Never really liked their operation anyway.

 

[Gilligan]

I thoroughly enjoy all the posts on this subject. The responses from everyone give the reader a pretty broad picture of the comparisons between buying from LDS or LP. Hopefully many LDS are reading these posts as it is in their $ interests to try and compete with LP as best they can. Giving out free air fills and other services sure helps. But the bottom line in most cases is the $ dif in the end as seen by Knavey's post. That was my deciding factor when buying my Suunto Cobra. Even with the $32 shipping the price from LP was about $300. less than the LDS. I also think LP does sort of rip you on shipping but if you are buying a high ticket item that shipping becomes acceptable in comparison to the LDS price, especially if you live in a location with a high sales tax, which must also be factored in as their is none with LP unless you live in NY State.:shades:

 

[Sebastian]

I just "completed" my first online purchase

I decided to buy a Macro set (8x, 16x lense and macro wand) for my SeaLife Reefmaster Camera

Until now I have been a LDS buyer, so naturally I first headed to my LDS since they had it listed on their website.

Their store computer said they had one set left but they couldn't find it. I was told that the price would be around $290 AUD.
I decided to check out some more prices and had a look at ebay and Trading post...no success.

At this point I decided that it was time to try online shopping. From all I have heard from the board I decided to check out Leisure Pro.
I took a deep breath and went to their website

Well it turned out they had the Macro Set. For $ 133 AUD !!!!
My jaw dropped onto they keyboard...until I saw that the overseas shipping charge was about $80 AUD

Well I thought...still cheaper than at my LDS but I didn't like the idea of getting it shippped from overseas (customs, etc)

So I went to the SeaLife website to see what they charge. As it turned out their online shopping service was undergoing maintenance.
My eye caught the SeaLife "Dealer Locator". Checked Australia and it came up with one match.

My eyes lit up.

Not only was the "only" SeaLife Dealer here in Sydney but they were also located in the suburb next to mine (7min by car)

Great I thought! They had a website where you were able to purchase online. I found my Macro Set and checked the price..$279 AUD...well I, thought better than my LDS but hang on what's this? 10% off online purchases!

That brought the price down to $251.10 AUD
I was able to come by and pick it up and pay in person therefor saving the shipping charge and credit card hassle (I don't even have one )

So now I have my new Macro Set for my Camera and I couldn't be happier.

Sorry to drag it out so long

From now on I wouldn't hesitate buying things like Camera Accessories, Torches, etc online but when it comes to Wetsuits/Drysuits, BCD's I would think twice about it.

I know you might think that $50 AUD is not that of a big difference but for a me as a 16 year old it is.

 

[CD_in_Chitown]

For a few years I was unfortunate enough to live in the Mid-west, where the only LDS was 40 mins away, staffed by owner and spouse who were of the "We're doing you a favor" mindset, and veritably land locked to boot. I bought very little from them, picked up the little odds-n-ends at the Discount Scuba chains at the head of the keys highway or off the internet specials.

I moved back to the Northwest earlier this year and finally found an LDS where they make me honest deals that really compete or beat some of the Internet specials, not only that they have an active dive club where I can find a buddy for those no-notice after work dives, and knowledgeable staff who will spend all the time in the world talking diving to answer questions, offer advice, etc. I knew I was hooked when they actually stopped me from buying a knick-knack that I thought might have some purpose and suggested a DIY fix that cost me pennies. Not to mention the PS2 games to play when there are not dive videos playing on the tv.

There's still good ones out there, but it took some searching to find one in Seattle.

 

[5615mike]

Nice to know there are divers out there who have found LDS' that they enjoy doing business with. The rest of us will just keep dreaming that one day we will be that lucky.