The Great local dive shop vs. online debate

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These posts about online and LDS always seem to turn into wars, but I wanted to put my 2 cents in (which may be all its worth). I thought the whole online purchase thing was great and I guess I can see, from what some folks say, that if you have an LDS that is price gouging then online would be a better choice. What I have found from both of the local LDS that I deal with here is that going in and talking with them brings a wealth of information like goods and bads of equipment, things that are specific to one piece of equipment that are not to others, etc. They are both more than willing to spend hours with you talking to you about whats good and whats bad about this and that, and I have yet to find something they've lied to me about. This is a lot of work and time being put into the process of building a relationship. The way I figure it, a relationship is a 2 way street and takes work from both sides. Anyway, I said I was going to try to keep this short and I think everyone can see where I'm going with this. Each person, just like witht their choice of equipment, is in a unique situation as to how much time they spend diving and learning from their LDS and I think it only fair to support the ones that support you. Just my opinion, but one I'm probably gonna stick with for a very long time.
 
Just to clarify one point: the assumption that on-line equipment is not supported by the manufacturer is not entirely true. I have purchased Genesis equipment on-line through authorized Genesis dealers and have had my LDS service the units under full warranty. Ask the manufacturer about which sites are authorized. I believe you can also buy Sherwood (same company as Genesis), Mares, Tusa and others in this manner.:)
 
I have been told the same thing as DiverMJR, but with one addition, one of those companies and I don't remember which one it is, has 2 different lines of products 1 for the shop to sell and 1 for internet sales and if the shop is not approved for internet sales, they won't be able to get the parts for the internet model where as they can for the LDS model.
 
DiverMJR once bubbled...
Just to clarify one point: the assumption that on-line equipment is not supported by the manufacturer is not entirely true. I have purchased Genesis equipment on-line through authorized Genesis dealers and have had my LDS service the units under full warranty. Ask the manufacturer about which sites are authorized. I believe you can also buy Sherwood (same company as Genesis), Mares, Tusa and others in this manner.:)

You have accuratly hit the crux of the problem. The dealer, on line or LDS MUST be an AUTHORIZED dealer. If the seller is not an AUTHORIZED dealer, then you may not have a warranty.

I also believe that the expertise the LDS (including Sports Chalet my LDS) brings to the transaction is VALUE ADDED and therefore worth somthing. So I guess what I am saying is, if you are going to buy online, then talk to the folks on line and get and use their expertise. Don't go to the local LDS and try stuff on or try stuff out and then buy it online.

We all want a good deal. But floor space, store employees, lights, and the other stuff you see and don't see in a store front operation cost money, that is one savings the on line store can give you. But you can't walk into an online store and try it on or handle the equpment either or get a repair done in a few minutes.
 
We all want a good deal. But floor space, store employees, lights, and the other stuff you see and don't see in a store front operation cost money, that is one savings the on line store can give you. But you can't walk into an online store and try it on or handle the equpment either or get a repair done in a few minutes.

AMEN and AMEN
 
(I also believe that the expertise the LDS (including Sports Chalet my LDS) brings to the transaction is VALUE ADDED and therefore worth somthing. So I guess what I am saying is, if you are going to buy online, then talk to the folks on line and get and use their expertise. Don't go to the local LDS and try stuff on or try stuff out and then buy it online. )

AMEN Too.

If online sales keep happening your local Dive Store will go out of business or charge 50 an air fill and online store can't provide air fills.
 
I saw a true case in point this weekend. 2 new divers, husband and wife, go into the shop and ask all kinds of questions about wetsuits, masks, fins and watches (like the citizen). Just before taking their advanced ow this weekend they come back in to the LDS and are showing their new suits, and his new watch and telling about how they're concerned that her prescription mask will not come in in time for the class (I'm 99% sure this wordered online as well) sure enough it didn't. The spent the entire weekend asking about weight integrated BCs and showing interest, but what they didn't know was that I had followed them out of the restaurant and overheard the conversation about how the ones that were suggested to them would be a good choice and now they just needed to go online and get a price for them. UNBELIEVABLE!!!!

I know there are divers all over that have the experience and knowledge it takes to be able to choose their own gear, lead their own dives and maybe even pump their own air, but the majority of people I have seen so far rely on their LDS for so much more than just air fills, and are not educated enough to make their own discernments about what all they read on the internet to purchase their gear online. I know their are crooked and price gouging LDS around everywhere, but if you look around and take the time to build a relationship with the folks that work there and run the place, it has been my personal experience that they will take care of you in the years to come.

But floor space, store employees, lights, and the other stuff you see and don't see in a store front operation cost money
Pasley made a very good point here, but I want to add one more thing, think about the money that it has taken the people in the shop spending in order to gain the experience that we want to "partake" of. This is how these folks make a living, imagine if you are a, for laymans terms, a "computer professional" and you can do somehting for someone for $75 an hour and someone would like you to do some work for them but want to only spend $35 an hour to get it done, gang I've spent the better portion of my life learning to do what I do and countless dollars buying and working with all kinds of different equipment, how in the world can people expect me to not want a reasonable price for my knowledge and experience. Or mayber a programmer that build and writes a program that someone copies and gives away, or an engineer that design something and those design plans are copied and given away, or a dive professional that spends years and countless dollars learning and "perfecting" the trade to only give that knowledge away and hope and pray they can now live off of $4 air fills and what I would imagine is probably a $30 to $40 profit for class that it takes 5 nights and one full weekend to teach.

My whole point is that of Pasley's, if your going to take advantage of the value added features of your LDS, do your part and purchase gear from them.
 
kd5izq once bubbled...
2 new divers {doing some awful, silly crap} UNBELIEVABLE!!!!

Now that is just downright evil. This, coming from a person who bought most everything online. But I didn't waste the LDS' time and energy or ungratefuly seek their advice on this. I took my chances (well, researched and read and even, for the BC, dragged my ass to Manhattan to actually go TO LeisurePro). When I know I need something that requires educated advice before purchase I consult with and then purchase from the LDS.

I'm sorry to say, it's usually lower end items, just because I can afford the price differential on, say, a mask or fins easier than on, say, a regulator. I wish it wasn't that way. I wish I could afford to support local business, but I'm just not in that tax bracket quite yet.
 
You know thats another thing I think so many people misunderstand as well. When you purchase something at a "true" savings and have done your reasearch, purchase from a reputable DEALER and KNOW what your getting is the exact same thing as in the LDS, give the LDS a chance to try and get close to the price, and if they can't make the purchase online, I think alot of LDS will understand. For instance, lets say you read about this set of regs, and want to upgrade, so you do your typical research: read reviews, read posts here, look at the online shops, read posts here. Then you go to the LDS and it turns out to be a reg that they carry, you look at the price (have asked no questions or advice of the LDS at this point) and its $500, no here's where I see that the road can honorably come to a "Y".

A) You go home, look up the same reg on the internet at your favorite online dealers, best price $350 so you come back to the shop the LDS (no questions now about the product, YOU did the research on this one). You talk to the shop employee, explain that you would like to purchase said regs, but have been doing research on your own and did find it for $350 ($150 price difference, but in most cases you've still got $25 to pay in shipping so we're talking about a real "savings" of $125). You explain that if they could simply come down to, lets say $450 you'd much rather get it from them. Now if they choose to do so, you've saved $50 off their price and have a face, a name, and readily available walk-in service in your favor, so even if you purchase online, your still going to only spend $75 more for the LDS product, with the value added extras to show for it.

B) You go home, look up the same reg on the internet at your favorite online dealers, best price $350 so you come back to the shop the LDS, this time you ask questions. What are the differences between this reg and others or maybe even the one that your using, what are pros and cons to the reg and why is it that an online shop can sell it so much cheaper. Now we come into multiple possibilities again

1) The reg has a history of problems, yeah its top of the line, but tends to need servicing ALOT.
2) Or perhaps its a damp breather, just a by product of its construction
3) Or perhaps it's an ok reg, but you could really get most all of the same features in perhaps just a slightly larger foot print for $100 cheaper model.
4) Or perhaps you find out that the manufacturer has 2 different models of the same reg, one for LDS purchase the other for online purchase only because they use different parts and not all LDS that are dealers for that brand can service the internet model, therefore the internet model would very likely have to be shipped off for its yearly maint. (major downfall).

From here on, I think its pretty easy to see that yeah there are some upsides to doing business online, but only if you are TRULY aware of ALL aspects of the product you are buying, otherwise its worth the extra money to purchase through your LDS. Now, somebody is bound to come back and accuse me of working at an LDS, to answer that question no I don't, I'm IT manager at a small business, I simply spend alot of time with our LDS and am working towards my Divemaster there (and no DMs don't get paid for helping out) and they are good people, very helpful, and and very knowledgeable. I made the online mistake a couple of times and now see the value added difference. I hope this whole thread doesn't offend someone, because like I said before I know there are those that are completely capable of making good choices online, but when I see instances like I saw this weekend it really gets my dandruff in a fluff.
 
I bought a set of gear for me and my wife - BC, Reg, octo, guages and some clips. LP saved me almost half of what LSD was going to charge me. They told me that I was paying less than their cost and they could not do any better.................They shut their doors about 7 months ago. We have lost 2 of the 4 LDS's we had 2 years ago. Go figure.
 

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