I didn't even mention the cost of he. Lately most of my nonteaching dives are on he. Even doing it myself it costs a bunch but if I don't do it now I won't ever and these are dives I want to remember. I'm going to suck as much helium as I can.
The Great local dive shop vs. online debate
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yknot
Guest
I suspect that when 1 LDS bellies up, if your area has the demand another will spring up. The prevailing opinion on this board seems to be that nobody opened a dive shop to get rich. I guarantee there is someone in your area convinced that they could do a better job than the last guy. This is all supply and demand. In spite of some people's attempt to justify price gouging, if a 36% fill costs $10, how does the bump to 50% warrent a $25 charge? Only reason I see is someone thinks they have you over a barrel. What this thread is really stating is how fed up consumers are with poor service. Why should your LDS be exempt from consumer's demands? My customers are certainly prone to the occasional sanity check on prices. All of the crying about tire kickers that don't buy anything isn't solving any of your problems. I'd be more interested in hearing what the LDS posters here are doing to combat things and stay in business.
Maybe you misunderstood. I payed $25 each for two bottles of 50% from a shop in Chicago that we had a dive scheduled with. My guess is that we would have paid the same for 36%. They did have us over a barrel there wasn't anyplace around here to get such gas.
techdiver12
Guest
hi I work for a dive store in MN and we do very well at complet agains online. it is all in serivce.
reefrat
Contributor
Seems to me that some of these LDS's should start selling stuff on-line at competitive prices.
Once they got the volume of sales up they could offer in-shop stock at the same prices.
Best of both worlds- cheap prices/ high volume sales on the net and for those who want to come in and browse cheap prices AND the usual LDS services.
Show me an LDS that provides decent service, a good range of stock at routinely cheap prices and I'll show you a lot of interested divers.
But then maybe I'm just displaying my ignorance of the whole retail/ marketing scene!
Once they got the volume of sales up they could offer in-shop stock at the same prices.
Best of both worlds- cheap prices/ high volume sales on the net and for those who want to come in and browse cheap prices AND the usual LDS services.
Show me an LDS that provides decent service, a good range of stock at routinely cheap prices and I'll show you a lot of interested divers.
But then maybe I'm just displaying my ignorance of the whole retail/ marketing scene!
reefrat
Online sales
We are in the process of setting up on-line sales. We will still have a rough time of it though because we only have a couple of brands we can sell on line. Some of those manufacturers put restrictions on us that will be a problem also. Our prices won't be as low to start because we pay more for the stuff. We will never be as cheap as diveinn because there is NO DEALER pricing level that low in this country.
As far as your other comments we don't have a huge in store stock. The reason for that is simple we dont have a huge walk in market. Most who buy equipment are students. We don't have people walking through all day like a wall mart. I have a bunch of stuff on ebay now.
Service is about as good as it will get in a two person store.
Alot of interested divers? I wouldn't say that.
The one thing that has hurt us (that in a way has been by choice)is that we don't run many trips. The reason for that is simple I have a job (that is what pays the bills) and my wife needs to be in the store so there is nobody to go. Things have changed recently and I now have another instructor and a DM who are in a position to travel so we'll try some trip and see how it goes. Trips don't make money other than to keep traffic in the store and boost sales.
Keep in mind that there will always be others with more capital who will be able to offer merchandise cheaper.
Online sales
We are in the process of setting up on-line sales. We will still have a rough time of it though because we only have a couple of brands we can sell on line. Some of those manufacturers put restrictions on us that will be a problem also. Our prices won't be as low to start because we pay more for the stuff. We will never be as cheap as diveinn because there is NO DEALER pricing level that low in this country.
As far as your other comments we don't have a huge in store stock. The reason for that is simple we dont have a huge walk in market. Most who buy equipment are students. We don't have people walking through all day like a wall mart. I have a bunch of stuff on ebay now.
Service is about as good as it will get in a two person store.
Alot of interested divers? I wouldn't say that.
The one thing that has hurt us (that in a way has been by choice)is that we don't run many trips. The reason for that is simple I have a job (that is what pays the bills) and my wife needs to be in the store so there is nobody to go. Things have changed recently and I now have another instructor and a DM who are in a position to travel so we'll try some trip and see how it goes. Trips don't make money other than to keep traffic in the store and boost sales.
Keep in mind that there will always be others with more capital who will be able to offer merchandise cheaper.
You know, LDS could stand for Local Department Store just as easily.
Grandma & Granpa (Okay, in my case it was really mom & dad) used to buy a lot of stuff out of the Sears catalog. I can remember Christmas' where if we didn't choose form it, there wasn't going to be anything.
Some of that was because we didn't live in an area that had much , if any selection. Some of it was cost, and the convenience of not having to "go to town".
The only real difference is that there are a lot more catalogs, and they're a lot more robust.
All of the other retails stores have to compete with the online stuff as well. Seems to me by most of the posts have to deal with poor service. Well, I don't have any sympathy whatsoeever for those shops.
I try to support the local that I frequent as much as I can. Classes, incidentals. But they don't stock a lot, don't carry the brands that I prefer, so I don't really feel that I don't support them. I buy my dive gear like I buy everythig else~ I shop around for the place that suits my needs. Sometimes its price, sometimes service, sometimes how quick Ineed it.
Simple basic economics~ the science of choices.
Grandma & Granpa (Okay, in my case it was really mom & dad) used to buy a lot of stuff out of the Sears catalog. I can remember Christmas' where if we didn't choose form it, there wasn't going to be anything.
Some of that was because we didn't live in an area that had much , if any selection. Some of it was cost, and the convenience of not having to "go to town".
The only real difference is that there are a lot more catalogs, and they're a lot more robust.
All of the other retails stores have to compete with the online stuff as well. Seems to me by most of the posts have to deal with poor service. Well, I don't have any sympathy whatsoeever for those shops.
I try to support the local that I frequent as much as I can. Classes, incidentals. But they don't stock a lot, don't carry the brands that I prefer, so I don't really feel that I don't support them. I buy my dive gear like I buy everythig else~ I shop around for the place that suits my needs. Sometimes its price, sometimes service, sometimes how quick Ineed it.
Simple basic economics~ the science of choices.
yknot
Guest
I have yet to see a single LDS in my area go out of business even with internet competition. Eventually things will find a balance. If we all quit buying off the internet as some suggest what will pressure the status quo in the dive industry to change current practices? Some brands of gear prohibit internet sales by their dealers. If we all buy from brick and morter dealers with an internet presence as DiverBouy suggested how does this guarantee available air fills? How do you know that your LDS is the one to survive? If all of the LDS's vanished tomorrow I bet Scubapro and Aqualung would find a way to get us all cheap air fills anyway. If not, who's to say what we would pay for an air fill. Obviously it's the overpriced equipment thats subsidizing air.
Because as of yet ... you can't get an air fill over the Internet or via US Postal service (I kinda thought that was obvious). As for your theory when all LDS's go out of business then all our cheap air fills will come from the ScubaPro Santa and the Aqualung fairies - I nearly lost my mouthful of diet coke all over my keyboard. Finally, regarding your over simplified conclusion, the issue is just a tad bit more complex than equipment prices subsidizing air fills. We need competition and yes the Internet will help drive that competition. But no one has offered a legitimate method to get air fills if the LDS is gone. As for my local area a dozen shops have closed there doors in half as many years, every new diver I meet tells me more than half of their equipment came from the Internet then in the same breath they complain how far they must drive for a decent LDS. Hmm.
yknot
Guest
My views may sound over simplified but some of the previous posts I've read defy logic. This thread starts with the claim that it is OK to buy from an internet source as long as they have a brick and morter presence. When it gets pointed out that Leisure Pro has a store, the common fall back position for some people is that the people there aren't divers so we shouldn't buy from them. Does this mean it's OK to be mugged by my LDS as long as everyone there is a diver? I've also never seen an explanation for where Leisure Pro gets there stock. MF has said they must be buying it for pennies on the dollar from liscenced sources. I believe they are but would bet those sources are the manufacturers themselves. Do the math. What's the cost of doing business, even on the internet? Most of LP's sales are by credit card. This adds 5% or so to overhead. Do you think NYC is the cheapest place from which to run a business? Anybody care to speculate on how much of an item they sell? If they sold 100 Scubapro reg sets a week, how would they rate compared to the average Scubapro dealer? 10 to 20 times as large? Could anyone here obtain 100 Scubapro regs a week consistantly from any source other than the manufacturer? The real winners in all of this are the manufacturers. By refusing to officially discount and sell over the internet, companies like Scubapro can maintain a certain respect or mystique that tends to fade for discounted items. The consumer gives up an official warranty in exchange for the discounted price. Could Leisure Pro afford their own inhouse warranty if they ran at a 2% margin? Want more evidence that the manufacturers are in on this? Why doesn't Leisure Pro sell Halcyon gear? Surely it's as easy to obtain on the black market as Scubapro gear. In fact, doesn't Halcyon permit internet sales? What I've never seen is discounted Halcyon gear. Same price, internet or LDS. Why would Leisure Pro carry a line of equipment they can't discount?
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