The Great local dive shop vs. online debate

[redacted]

But, to be fair, we may need to analyze what happened here. A business that does not expect customers to shop around for the best deal (price plus) is being niave. What I don't understand is why they didn't come back to you and give you a final shot at being the best deal after the service you provided them. But my guess would be that they found another deal that they were sure you could not or would not compete with. For most folks, including myself, price is going to carry the heaviest weight in the price plus "deal".

Why don't you ask them what they payed? At least you will have a better feel for what your competition is. And if you can't compete, maybe you are going to have to be satisfied with the $50.00 you charged for less than an hour of service for the set-up (assuming you did some appropriate testing after the assembly) and an occasional free meal.

I do feel sorry for the LDS that is trying to make a living on retail sales given the overwhelming price differential with the internet competition. But the long term key to success is not in decieving, coercing, or running off potential customers as some seem to think.

 

[ZoCrowes255]

Awap:

They should have come back with the prices for Leisure Pro. If someone brings in a package they want from Leisure Pro we can usually work with them and get them a good price from us even if we take a hit. The main thing that pissed me off was that they lied to me. They told me they would be back and they never showed. They could have at least had the courtesy to call and say they would not be back.

These are nice people but to me they just seemed cheap. They are definitely not hurting for cash (they drive a Mercades and a Lexus respectivly) so I really don't understand where they were coming from on that.

I am going to continue to treat them like any other customer but I hope they don't take advantage of me again. I am the same age as their son (18) so that may be why they explain something.

 

[chepar]

MNScuba once bubbled...
How often have we all taken a car for a test drive, haggled over price for hours, talk with the finance manager and then buy from another dealership because they gave us a better deal?

but I've always been really weird about (my feeling) of not being "fair" to a salesperson. Understand, this is strictly how I view my own behavior and not anyone else's.

I feel really funny about taking up a saleperson's time when there is a possibility about my not purchasing that item from him. If I am not almost positive that I am going to buy it right then and there, I will usually avoid any help until the time I am ready to buy. It's gotten to where I feel I have to buy a pair of shoes if I try them on. I know, it's weird.

 

[thethumper]

How do you think they can afford the Benz & Lexus. "Most" rich or well to do people don't get there the hard way.

I used to be like that when I was younger, but have since started swaying the other way. I just paid $400 for a 1pc 3mm Henderson Goldcore & 5mm Goldcore shorty/farmer-john. I couldn't beat that price anywhere online.

 

[JeffAustin]

Unfortunately, we live in a world where we want everything at cost. Do you buy your food at cost, your car?? With the internet and its promise of products at "cost", business as we know it is changing. Local outlets for many items are closing their doors, because they can't compete with online prices. When you buy locally, you are putting money back into your own community, and you are doing your part to ensure there is somewhere local to get your gear, air and trusted information. No, I don't own a dive shop, but I think its really lame for someone to go into a shop, any kind of shop, and pump owners and employees for information regarding equipment, and then turn around and get it online to save 10 or 15% and tax. After doing that, you should not expect to get the red carpet treatment at your LDS. The support you can get from a good LDS far outweighs the savings you get online. It's a question of loyalty, if you expect you LDS to give you good training at a reduced price, air fills while you wait, regulator repairs while you wait,... he's got a right to expect you will come to him for your equipment purchases. I'm not suggesting you support some bogus dive shop, but if you've got a good dive shop in your area, you should support them.

 

[Genesis]

but that works both ways. LDSs are less than honest with their customers all the time. Bad behavior breeds more bad behavior.

Why do you think that nobody gives a second thought about walking out of a car dealership over $50? Its because the dealer has just spent 2 hours trying to screw them out of $500 or more, that's why. Once insulted, most people's sensibilities and desire to "play nice" goes right in the trash can.

The LDS seems to want it both ways. They want to throw up obstacles to making a deal that everyone can live with, including colluding with the manufacturers to fix prices, then they get upset that someone goes around them.

Well, gee, I'm sorry. You made that bed, now lie in it.

You can certainly play the "special price" game. That will just drive them away, they will tell their friends, and the business you lose won't just be theirs - it will be theirs and five more divers.

How long can you continue to do that? I wager the answer is "not very long."

Sticking to your guns is one thing. Doing things that are fundamentally inappropriate up front in an attempt to restrict competition or even slander your competitors is almost always going to turn around and bite you in the back.

 

[wetman]

How many internet-enabled people really get their gear info from shops? Theres so much info online (here included) that its hard not to know more than shops some times.

I think this is similar to people knowing a lot more about health care these days because of all the information available online now.

steve

 

[Genesis]

Its more like 30-40% or even more.

For 10% over online pricing? Sure, I'll buy locally. No problem at all. I believe in supporting local merchants when it makes reasonable sense.

When I can almost buy TWO for the price of ONE? Not a chance.

 

[Ontario Diver]

Rude, rude, rude, rude.......

I have often gone to a shop and recieved great service. If I happen to find a better price (online or in another store), I go back and see if they can match or better it.

Usually they can, or they throw in something extra or they give me thier best price and I see if the service makes the difference. I have only once had a "good" salesperson get upset.

Most understand quite well the concept of caplitalism and just want an honest shot at getting the business.

 

[Genesis]

An honest shot at the business is perfectly fair.

But, in all honesty, sometimes there's no point.

Let's take the Scubapro Mk25/S600 example. The "local dive shop" price is $660 (no octo, just 1st and 2nd) The "10% maximum discount" that SP allows LDSs, if given to the customer, would end up with a price of $600.

LP's price is $374.95 - 38% less than the LDS "best price", and a whopping 43% off "list".

Once a LDS tells you "we can't discount more than 10% off list" they've set a floor under which there is no point in giving them that "best and final" and allowing them to try to meet it.

They've already told you where the floor on their pricing is!

Unfortunately, this is all too often the case at the LDSs I'm familiar with. You get into a pricing discussion over some piece of gear, and the chestnut is trotted out about they "can't" discount more than X% off list due to some dealer agreement.

What these businessfolk don't realize is that they just killed the deal by taking that position. If they then turn around and start slandering the online competition, they just heap insult upon injury, and damage THEIR credibility further (rather than the online guy's, which was their intent!)

If you tell me that your "best deal" is $X, or if the tag on the item in the store is so far out of whack with what I find it elsewhere that I realize there's no point in trying to let you meet the price or even get close, then you've shot yourself in the foot (or head, if you prefer!)

If you tag an item at $600 but will sell it for $400, what does THAT tell me as a customer? That you'll rape me given the chance, and only by holding your feet to the fire will I get a fair deal? Gee, that's the kind of image you want to present to your customers?

True, business is always, to some extent, an adversarial process. You have a product, I have money. We both want what the other has, and we want to negotiate the best deal we can. There is an inherent friction there, and that's good - it keeps people honest and propels competition.

But when you tell me, from the pricing displayed on your merchandise, that you think I'm a dolt and you'll take gross advantage of me unless I come in and whack you with a stick (someone else's price), or that you simply won't negotiate anyway (thereby making the attempt only a friction-creating event, with no possibility of leading to a closed transaction) then you're insulting me as a customer. Either right up front if I know what I can buy elsewhere for, or, if not, you're going to leave me feeling badly taken advantage of when I find out down the road.

Neither is conducive to a favorable long-term relationship.

Sadly, few businessfolk these days are interested in that long-term relationship. They far prefer to try to find some argument that leads to "you need me", rather than "we are both far better off if we get along with one another."

The Internet and online sales are not going away. The "hide the ball" game won't work any longer. Those shops who insist on running that game are going to find their equipment sales in the dust and, ultimately, they will follow.