The Great local dive shop vs. online debate

[metridium]

Originally posted by MikeFerrara
If you want to save real money you need a good price on the consumables. Defog, Airlines charter fees, breathing gas. food, hotels and stuff like that.

Defog? One bottle lasts me a season or so, at a cost of only a few bucks.
Gas? I dive very little locally; the vast majority of fills take place at vacation sites.
Dive travel costs? I don't do LDS-organized dive travel, period. I travel either with old friends, girlfriend, or independently.
Charter airlines? I don't do that either.

So factoring any/all of the above into the equation has negligible effect for me. I'm sure that's quite different for those who frequently dive locally, and/or use the LDS as a social function.

Originally posted by MikeFerrara
How long does a reg last? What does it cost per dive? if you pay 600 instead of 300, how does that effect your cost per dive or per trip as a percentage. I have a feeling that the percentage savings is insignificant (300/total diving costs for 5 years).

That's fine if you're flush, but not if you're on a budget. Try looking at it from this perspective: "I can afford to buy from the LDS a low-end reg which I'll have to replace when I go to more advanced diving, or I can afford to buy a high-end reg online. I can't afford to buy the high-end reg from the LDS. Hmmm...what to do?"

Originally posted by MikeFerrara
Now if you had a good relationship with your lds and received a deal on air or nitrox or other favors that we are always doing for people how long would it take to get the 300 back over and over?

Good point for many, though in my case the answer would be "never".

Originally posted by MikeFerrara
The mesage that I get is that I should close the store front (it costs a lot of money, buy web advertising instead) and stay in the back room at the computer terminal. Why teach? No profit there (just a lot of risk) need to jocky the keyboard. Why change the oil and filters in the compressor? Just shut her down. Why mix gas? I could be packing up tomarrows UPS shipment. Why spend all the money, energy and time that we do to further our dive education? We don't need to know diving, we need web design. Why stand out front answering questions til ten at night? pack boxes, spiff up web site or just go home. Now that we're in to this online thing, why scuba gear? I think the margin and volume would be higher with adult videos.

I'm not trying at all to tell you what you should do. I'm not your enemy, though a few LDSs have treated me that way. This is merely feedback from one small niche of the diving market, that of the independent diver who doesn't want hand-holding. Take it for what it's worth.

Personally, I'd like to see LDSs band together to force discounts from the manufacturers sufficient to allow competition with online pricing. My fear, though, is that LDSs would use that power at the expense of consumers to eliminate online sales instead of competing with them.

 

[metridium]

moderator please delete

 

[pt40fathoms]

Originally posted by metridium

Just curious....

how much more expensive ($ or %) would a locally-available item have to be before you'd turn to an online LDS?

I'm not sure what you pay fo rthe items you buy in you part of the world, but over here the online stores tend to be no more than 15 % lower than the LDS. When you factor in shipping, and customs fees, the margin drops.

I do know, however, that the USA puts a very large import tarrif on scuba equipment entering the country. Making the products made outside the USA far less attractive than the local manufactured ones. Canada has no manufacturer of scuba equipment, with the exception of some accessories. So we have no import tarrifs to deal with, which is why the prices are more competitive up here.

So come to Canada, buy your gear here, and we'll throw in a box of Cuban Cigars to boot. OOPS was that an advertisment? :arrrgh:

 

[metridium]

Originally posted by pt40fathoms
I'm not sure what you pay fo rthe items you buy in you part of the world, but over here the online stores tend to be no more than 15 % lower than the LDS. When you factor in shipping, and customs fees, the margin drops.

Down here in the US the spread is wider. For example, I recently priced a drysuit through several LDS and a couple of ODS (online dive shops). The most commonly quoted LDS price 35% higher ($500.00) more than the lowest ODS price.

Interestingly enough, the other ODS's quote was equal to the majority of LDS quotes.

I don't have the numbers in front of me, but recent quotes on Apeks regs revealed prices at roughly 60-70% of LDS quotes.

 

[Jeblis]

LDS
-----
Regulator+Octopus $900
Computer $1190

Total $2090+Tax

Internet
----------
Regulator+Octopus $500
Computer $750

Total $1250+No Tax


Hmmmm wonder which one I'll choose?

Yeah I want to support my local dive shop, but not at almost 100% markup

 

[MikeFerrara]

metridium,
You bring up some good points. The fact is many divers primarily dive when traveling. They simply go for the cheapest because they really don't need anything of the same services as local divers. Every time you spend money you send signals to the market. We are not competing with the online dealers because we are not in the same business. The ones with the best prices are not dealers for the products they sell. We don't even know for sure where they get the stuff. Some of the prices you folks quote don't even provide enough of a mark-up to make it worth while to write up the reciept. Many times it is less than what I pay for the stuff. 98% of our business is divers we know, and probably trained. Very seldom does a walk-in come in and buy something other than maybe a sticker for their car. The "travel only divers" do not in my view represent a potential market unless I obtain murhandise on the street and sell it for half price. This is why dive shop don't go out of their way to impress this market. It is not within our reach. If the market obeys the signal that are being sent when you send money there will be no instructors or dive shops only comodity buying and selling of equipment. The manufacturers are not going to discount so we can compete with online. They want to find out how some of these outfits obtain the stuff and plug the holes. Dive-Inn I don't think is a dealer for anyone not Apex not Scuba Pro not Cressi. I have an Apex I baught as a dealer. I paid more for it than some of you pay. I sure can't sell it for that. This whole thisn in like dealing with the Mafia.

 

[metridium]

Originally posted by MikeFerrara
The ones with the best prices are not dealers for the products they sell.

In my particular case, all of my big ticket items - whether from LDS or ODS - came from authorized dealers....usually listed in the "Top 10 Dealers" section of the manufacturers' websites.

 

[pt40fathoms]

Remember, the prices I quote here are in Canadian Dollars. The exchange rate is (approximately) $1.00 USD = $1.42 CDN.

The following is what I paid for the items, invoice date May 25 2002. As a side note, the LDS did give me 20% off the Abyss. Mares has a trade in program, ANY junk reg, working or not will get you 20% off. They want to get them off the market. I know a few other manufacturers are doing this as well.

Mares Abyys Reg. $568.00
Mares Octo. $140.00
Mares Vector Platinum BCD with weight integration $580.00

I've purchased more from my LDS, but this will give you a start. Does anyone have a comparison to the prices being asked in the USA.

 

[danceswithoctopus]

So how are the ODS's for VIP's, annuals, and hyros?

 

[metridium]

Originally posted by danceswithoctopus
So how are the ODS's for VIP's, annuals, and hyros?

Tanks came VIPed, I'll have them visually reinspected next year while I'm diving other tanks, and when it's time for hydros, they'll go to the local fire extinguisher company.

Annuals for regs go to whichever LDS wants the business and I feel confident in. Eventually, though, I want to learn to take care of my own regs and cut out the LDS all together. Taking three weeks to do annuals on a reg for $60.00 or so at the LDS is ridiculous, especially when they have to sub it out anyway.