The great back inflate vs. jacket BC debate

[XenoMorph2049]

OK. So which is better, the number of dives logged, or number of years diving? Retoricle question. I am SERIOUSLY considering getting certified before the course, and will no doubt be diving frequently. Probably every other day on average, with more than one dive per trip. Lets just say two dives per trip at every other day. That comes to 60 dives in two months. Is that better than someone who has done 60 dives over one year?This is a serious question, Im not trying to sound like a smarta**. I know theres no replacement for expierience, but I would think that more frequent dives would prove to be better because the skill is kept "fresh". I know people who have dived for years who I wouldnt trust teaching anybody. So let say i dive these 60 dives, then attend the school. 5 dives a week for three months is around 40 dives, not taking into consideration some days will be more than one dive. Thats over a 100 dives over 5 months. Is this worse that someone doing 100 dives over 2 years? Once again, these are serious questions not ment to offend, and Im looking for honest oppinions from experienced divers. And just in case there doubt as to my having the time for these dive, It can be done, I have the time. But are that many dives so close together in any way dangerous? About half the dives will be around 70-90 ft. at max for harvesting for my aquariums, so only half will be deeper dives. In case I havent mentioned before, this school dedicates a full week to each skill, i.e. OW, AOW, nitrox, ect.

 

[Wendy]

Personally I think you are rushing things. Why the rush to be an instructor? You're young and you have time.

I know folks that have been diving for years and suck and I know folks with hundreds of dives that also suck. Sad thing is that these people don't know they suck, many think they are god's gift to scuba diving, which they aren't.

 

[detroit diver]

You need to read what Wendy wrote previously. She nailed it right on the head:

"In my personal opion it sounds like you are putting the cart before the horse. Take your time. Get ow cert, and dive, dive, dive. Then do AOW and nitrox, dive some more and some more, then rescue. Then after that do your DM course. I had well over 100 dives before I did DM."

This is how you gain experience. You can't cram in OW, and then do AOW a week later, then.... and then....

I know you don't want to hear this, but I think we all are trying to tell you the same thing.

Oh yeah, one more thing. How do you know your instructor has the skills and experience to teach YOU? If they've gone thru the same program as you are considering, I'd run the other way.

XenoMorph2049 once bubbled...
OK. So which is better, the number of dives logged, or number of years diving? Retoricle question. I am SERIOUSLY considering getting certified before the course, and will no doubt be diving frequently. Probably every other day on average, with more than one dive per trip. Lets just say two dives per trip at every other day. That comes to 60 dives in two months. Is that better than someone who has done 60 dives over one year?This is a serious question, Im not trying to sound like a smarta**. I know theres no replacement for expierience, but I would think that more frequent dives would prove to be better because the skill is kept "fresh". I know people who have dived for years who I wouldnt trust teaching anybody. So let say i dive these 60 dives, then attend the school. 5 dives a week for three months is around 40 dives, not taking into consideration some days will be more than one dive. Thats over a 100 dives over 5 months. Is this worse that someone doing 100 dives over 2 years? Once again, these are serious questions not ment to offend, and Im looking for honest oppinions from experienced divers. And just in case there doubt as to my having the time for these dive, It can be done, I have the time. But are that many dives so close together in any way dangerous? About half the dives will be around 70-90 ft. at max for harvesting for my aquariums, so only half will be deeper dives. In case I havent mentioned before, this school dedicates a full week to each skill, i.e. OW, AOW, nitrox, ect.

 

[MechDiver]

XenoMorph2049 once bubbled...
OK. So which is better, the number of dives logged, or number of years diving?

We have two problems I think. One is the amount of information you don't know about diving. Not putting you down, but it is difficult to answer your questions piecemeal because you lack the background to put the answers into correct context.

Second is you are totally pointed to an **END**, with little thought to the MEANS to get there. You are concentrating on building dives with no thought to the experience, skill development, confidence, and everything else that comes with the diving.

Enough on this subject...
MD

 

[detroit diver]

MechDiver once bubbled...


..............
Enough on this subject...
MD

I concur.

 

[ScoobyPat]

Wendy once bubbled...
Personally I think you are rushing things. Why the rush to be an instructor? You're young and you have time.

I second that. Personally, I think that this 'speed course' will put you and your future students in danger and I wonder why this is being accepted by the agencies (ok, $$$...duh). However, it is definitely not recommended. I just finished my AOW shortly after my OW cert and I felt that I did the AOW to fast, before I even had the chance of gaining more experience.

So, what is better? Number of years vs. frequency? Experience is both. If you do the same dive over an over again in the same quarry or area, then is is called routine, not experience. If you have been diving for 10 years with 10 logged dives, then that isn't experience either.

Experience is to have the knowledge that you can apply from theory, practise and knowledge.

There is nothing wrong of wanting to be an instructor, but try to stay reasonable. Try harvesting for your aquarium first.

If you came in here, looking for support, take the advice from very experienced divers like SeaJay and those who yet have more knowledge about this topic than you do.

Follow your dreams and goals, but stay down-to-earth.

Sorry, md, i will shut up now... :mean:

 

[SeaJay]

MechDiver once bubbled...


Ya know, I shouldn't be surprised by anything you post anymore, but every once in a while you come up with another one. Where in heavens name you dream this stuff is difficult to imagine.

While I'm being subtle. Don't ever presume to speak for me as to what or why I post. For one thing, you don't know enough, for another...well, lets just consider this a freeby.

MD

Uh... Thanks.

While I'm on the subject of recommending books... "How to Win Friends and Influence People" for you.

If you wish to specifically exclude yourself from my observations, then so be it. Let it be known, then, that I've observed many people tending to come down "hard" on newbies for the same reason that it would happen in a pilot's lounge... But that MD's reasons might be different. I really have no idea. It was a simple observation which apparently might not apply to him.

In all honesty, then, MD, why - whether you really are or aren't - are you at least percieved as coming down hard on newbies? Just wanting to be mean?

 

[detroit diver]

I really don't think MD was being hard at all on this guy. What he said was well intentioned and really quite appropriate.

When someone has their mind made up, like Xeno, it's really hard for them to see beyond their dreams, especially if the suggestions and answers are not what they had envisioned. If you really care to get thru to them, sometimes you need to smack them upside the head with a baseball bat. Then you get their attention.

In this case, I think MD only used a feather duster.

 

[blurblock]

XenoMorph2049 once bubbled...
OK. So which is better, the number of dives logged, or number of years diving? Retoricle question. I am SERIOUSLY considering getting certified before the course, and will no doubt be diving frequently. Probably every other day on average, with more than one dive per trip. Lets just say two dives per trip at every other day. That comes to 60 dives in two months. Is that better than someone who has done 60 dives over one year?This is a serious question, Im not trying to sound like a smarta**. I know theres no replacement for expierience, but I would think that more frequent dives would prove to be better because the skill is kept "fresh". I know people who have dived for years who I wouldnt trust teaching anybody. So let say i dive these 60 dives, then attend the school. 5 dives a week for three months is around 40 dives, not taking into consideration some days will be more than one dive. Thats over a 100 dives over 5 months. Is this worse that someone doing 100 dives over 2 years? Once again, these are serious questions not ment to offend, and Im looking for honest oppinions from experienced divers. And just in case there doubt as to my having the time for these dive, It can be done, I have the time. But are that many dives so close together in any way dangerous? About half the dives will be around 70-90 ft. at max for harvesting for my aquariums, so only half will be deeper dives. In case I havent mentioned before, this school dedicates a full week to each skill, i.e. OW, AOW, nitrox, ect.

Hi,

I sincerely doubt getting an instructor qualification within 3 months is any good for your prospective student. I thought of that too when I started diving. However, my dive instructor advised me against that. I now know why.

Firstly, you will not be experienced, especially in different water condition. You will most probably be diving at one spot for 3 months. Believe me, even in the same diving spot, the weather condition will make the water your enemy. I had been diving for only 3 months and I had seen the water changes, and it is still changing as of last Sunday. (Monsoon Seasion)

Secondly, you still will not be experienced, especially in handling a wide range of students. You will most probably be teaching (when you are a AI) a few classes only.

Thirdly, You still still will not be experienced, chances are you will not be able to differenciate Narociss and decompression sickness within that three months.

Fourth, about your comment "How many people will give up diving after a few dives" believe me, quite a lot. My class of open water classmate was twenty. All of us passed OW. However, there are only 3 of us now who are still actively diving.

After the 3 months, I am in my 20th dive. But I still feel myself not stable enough to go to AOW. My instructor did mentioned I am actually good enough to go to AOW (last Sun actually), but I still feel rather inadequate. Like you, I have spent all my life snokelling. Heck .... I live in South East Asia where all the pretty dive spots are ...... Oh.... My instructors were navy divers and current recreational divers, Tec diving and SSI Master Divers. They have been diving for almost 20 years. Thus I trusted them.

Trust me, just one month ago when I wanted to go for AOW, I was told off by them for being inadequate and they pointed out all my mistake.

I know Vietnam and Thailand and some malaysia school have "instant" instructor course where you stay there for 3 months and you will proceed to be an instructor. However, If you were a prospective student, will you

a. Go to an instructor will thousands of dive and 10 years diving experiences.

or

b. Go to an instructor that pass out after 3 months in school with 100 dive?

 

[MechDiver]

SeaJay once bubbled...


Uh... Thanks.

While I'm on the subject of recommending books... "How to Win Friends and Influence People" for you.

In all honesty, then, MD, why - whether you really are or aren't - are you at least percieved as coming down hard on newbies? Just wanting to be mean?

First off, I'm also a pilot so the lounge analogy was not lost on me SJ.

I'm not in a popularity contest with anyone here that I'm aware of, so thanks for the offer of the book but I'll pass.

Who perceives me as being hard on newbies? You? If you do, then you are more than welcome to push the little button on my posts that says report this post. And as DD so adroitly pointed out, sometimes you need a big stick to get someones attention. I especially like the 4 dive wonder who wants to know what kind of doubles to buy to dive the Doria. Would I call that person stupid? Yep.

I also realize there is a difference between ignorance and stupidity. Our friend Xeno is ignorant of alot of details that he doesn't realize he doesn't know. That's why I was nice to him Hopefully the other posters here have let him realize that all is not as he perceives it.

I call a spade a spade dude. You sometimes come close, but it takes you 3 pages to do it. I don't wish to spend that much time typing.

MD