The Golden Rule v. Dive Deposits

[SpeedyJ]

and that is a completely reasonable policy. I wouldn't hesitate to sign up on your boat. And if we get blown out, I'd treat you for dinner that night.

Careful, it starts with dinner and then you get the unsolicited photos that you have to explain to your significant others.

 

[Tracy]

Careful, it starts with dinner and then you get the unsolicited photos that you have to explain to your significant others.

You specifying poses and outfits pretty much rules out the unsolicited part.

 

[Nemrod]

I believe you are taking the Golden Rule to an unreasonable extent. With your logic you would get a hotel refund, gas refund, rental tank refund, etc. The golden rule says we can call the dive for any reason, it does not say at no cost. Businesses need to be profitable or they will not exist for very long. I have called several dives and all were at my cost. My safety is priceless and that is the way I move forward. No money is worth the risk. So, consider the deposit part of that cost.

^^^^^ This exactly^^^^^

Not everyone on the boat is in the same group, some may be individuals and folks who have traveled great distance and at great effort and expense. They did not stay out and party all night and are ready to go. Sure, cancel if not feeling up to the dive but inside the specified window, no refund should be given. The show goes on with or without.

I somehow overslept on a dive due to getting my dates confused. This south Florida shop actually refunded half my money despite my insisting they not, they did anyways. And their boat went out without me. As it should have. And I felt quite stupid for delaying the departure while they waited on me.

 

[Alex Ouroboros]

I dive in the UK and over the last year have had to scrub 3 days diving on separate occasions due to one reason or another, (also it’s a +2hr drive to get to a dive boat worth diving from ,,, Dover)
I also pay the full amount never mind the deposit if I don’t go, I have no problem with this as the skipper is trying to make a living, only has so many spots on the boat, can’t fill at last minute, the costs for him running a registered legit dive boat isn’t easy (at this very moment the vessel is out of the water having minor work done)

If people have a problem with this I’d suggest taking up golf.

 

[djansr]

I have always felt that local dive boats are the greatest resource for local divers. Not only do you get to dive interesting sites which you probably wouldn't know about let alone reach, you have a team watching over you (hopefully!) ready to help you if you need it.

If you thinking charter prices are expensive try owning a boat lol!

Certainly no one is making a lot of money running a local boat. Costs are continually rising and the trend among new certifications seems to be toward destination divers rather than active local divers.

California's dive boat fleet has been decimated in the wake of the Conception tragedy. It is much harder/more expensive to dive the Channel Islands these days and that's a real shame as they are some of the best coldwater diving anywhere. Many California divers will never see what cool opportunities exist just off our coast.

Filling a charter boat is very difficult to begin with and many boats run close to the break-even point. If you allow divers to cancel without penalty just because they are not feeling it, the operator will often have to face the choice between running a trip at a loss or cancelling altogether.

If they run at a loss often enough they will go out of business. If they cancel, how is that fair to the rest of the passengers and the crew who showed up but aren't going to be paid. How does the operator cover their fixed overhead like dock fees etc.?

It is entirely reasonable for boats to have a policy of no refunds after a certain point. It is standard in other industries too. If you buy a plane ticket but wake up with the flu, does United give you a refund?

I agree with the original post, inasmuch as that we should call the dive when not safe. However, your point is 100% valid. If you operate a business with thin margins as the charter boat business, having a policy that anyone can cancel anytime for any reason pretty much ensures that you go out of business fast. It is reasonable to have 24-48h no refund policy, and at that point the financial risk is on the diver. A situation where the boat tour operator takes 100% risk and divers take 0% risk (financial) is not where we are. It is possible, but then the prices would have to be 30-40% higher for everyone.
At the end of the day, diving is an expensive hobby and it is not in our interest to drive all boat tour operators out of business.
I am new to diving and when I started, following the advice of the local shop I got reg setup. After 9 mo, and 2 serious failures, I decided I do not want to dive with that crap anymore. They will repair it for free (1st stage crapped out after 16 dives) and now I have to buy another one and sell this (when repaired) at loss. It sucks, but what can I do. I am not going to dive with this crap anymore, as I do not feel safe. This is the same thing as calling the dive and losing money.

 

[Still Kicking]

I agree with the original post, inasmuch as that we should call the dive when not safe. However, your point is 100% valid. If you operate a business with thin margins as the charter boat business, having a policy that anyone can cancel anytime for any reason pretty much ensures that you go out of business fast. It is reasonable to have 24-48h no refund policy, and at that point the financial risk is on the diver. A situation where the boat tour operator takes 100% risk and divers take 0% risk (financial) is not where we are. It is possible, but then the prices would have to be 30-40% higher for everyone.
At the end of the day, diving is an expensive hobby and it is not in our interest to drive all boat tour operators out of business.
I am new to diving and when I started, following the advice of the local shop I got reg setup. After 9 mo, and 2 serious failures, I decided I do not want to dive with that crap anymore. They will repair it for free (1st stage crapped out after 16 dives) and now I have to buy another one and sell this (when repaired) at loss. It sucks, but what can I do. I am not going to dive with this crap anymore, as I do not feel safe. This is the same thing as calling the dive and losing money.

What reg crapped out in such short order?

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

If a dive operation has a policy, and you review and sign that policy, pay your NON REFUNDABLE money still knowing crystal clear their policy, and if you cancel, it's in you.
The diver needs to be able to wrap their head around the fact that they lost money and the best choice for them was to not dive. This isn't the boats fault.
If a diver feels compelled to dive no matter what just because there's non refundable money riding on it, then the diver needs to adjust their thinking.

 

[BRT]

I dive in the UK and over the last year have had to scrub 3 days diving on separate occasions due to one reason or another, (also it’s a +2hr drive to get to a dive boat worth diving from ,,, Dover)
I also pay the full amount never mind the deposit if I don’t go, I have no problem with this as the skipper is trying to make a living, only has so many spots on the boat, can’t fill at last minute, the costs for him running a registered legit dive boat isn’t easy (at this very moment the vessel is out of the water having minor work done)

If people have a problem with this I’d suggest taking up golf.

The problem is not the diver losing the deposit if the diver can't dive. The problem is the diver having the deposit tied up when the boat can't take them diving. For locals, probably no problem. For people who live elsewhere it may be a reason not to use that operation.

 

[Chavodel8en]

If what you wrote is true then you only cater to locals. Never to divers who will be in your area rarely or only once. Out of towners don't book with you because of your overly restrictive policy which may result in them losing their money through no fault of their own.

As I suspected you have lost customers.and probably more in bookings than the deposits you would have returned to those who won't be able to use them at some future time.

You're a lousy businessman who blames his customers for the problems and says they're too cheap and poor to dive if they have an issue with your policy. No wonder you're struggling to stay afloat.

Bro, I think you need to chill a bit. As long as this guy is fully transparent about his refund policy, then you can simply choose not to dive with him. No reason to let it get personal.

If I may suggest, what you're missing is that it appears that his business is the only one offering his specific niche of trips. As he said, bc its alot of resources even to operate it. So, to make it work, he's decided on his "buy in" refund policy. And also, he can demand this of customers, bc if they dont like it, they dont really have any other option to dive. Maybe he couldnt have such a policy if there were more competitors around - divers would vote with their fins.

And, as a response to the OP, and I hope Im not misreading your post, I dont think its realistic to expext the dive operator to bear the risk of the Golden Rule. I certainly wouldnt expect it. Although I would expect a full refund if the dive was blown out. But again, as long as the policy is transparent, divers can vote with their fins.