The General Angst Over the PADI eLearning Program

[all4scuba05]

Then how about if we think of it this way. Do your online class. Follow that up with one face to face classroom session. The instructor adds what he feels is needed, answers questions, tests each student, and then schedule the pool sessions for those who pass so far. Cuts down on the amount of days I have to take off just to show my face in a classroom.

 

[matts1w]

The medium is important because in a lecture, the instructor can add to the content when the PADI material is inadequate. It is more difficult when all the content is on the internet, and the instructor has no control over the process.

Having just attended a PADI workshop concering this issue, it has been shown that nowhere in the PADI curriculum does it required we only teach what is in the e-learing materials. We are encouraged to add all we want concerning local diving sites, conditions, techniques, marine life, equipment, etc... Where I work we have already began preparing a required e-learning students lecture/in store evening to discuss the vast array of divng found in our corner of the country (Gulf of mexico vs east coast vs keys vs springs...activities such as our main niche hunting, lobstering, fossils, photography, wrecks and structures such as the Grove, Tennaco Towers, whatever...how to chose a charter, equipment to consider, local fish..). Seriously the list goes on and on about what we can and will add to the class. I, for one, am pretty excited about how much more "real world" information we can add as we will no longer need to be battling attention spans after hours and hours of class time.

 

[webjr]

I suspect this is realy just the digital version of the OW manual, that has been available for years on CD (in html format). Instead of buying the CD at a dive shop and going home to put it on the computer, now they can just buy it online and have access to it imediately. I'm sure PADI has been planning this for years, hence the html format on the CD. The transition is a natural one. After doing the "bookwork" at home the student will still have to undergo knowledge review under the guidance of an instructor.
In a sence, this is no different than all the students in the past that have used the "digital" version of the manual.

 

[in_cavediver]

Will someone who has access to the standards please confirm this:

What does the student who did the e-learning option, by standards alone, have to do to complete the 'academic' portion of the class.

I am interested in what the standard specifically requires to be done, not what can be done or added at instructor discretion. IE, the absolute minimum

 

[H2Andy]

i see two issues on this thread:

1. is e-learning a viable tool to teach the academic portion of dive training?

and

2. is the PADI course a good use of e-learning?


i would agree that e-learning is a good way to learn material on your own, at your own pace. however, i would supplement it with at least one class session where the instructor goes over the main points and explains them in detail, as well as making sure the students have comprehended the material (particularly for table use).

as to whether PADI is "dumbing down" the course, that's not really an e-learning issue. that's PADI's choices in making the course as low level as possible to ensure most anybody can do it with a minimum of effort.

 

[Tigerman]

The whole idea of being able to use any form of aids for a test of your proficiency with material that could kill you if you dont know how it works is repulsive to me..
Would you trust a driver that didnt know the roadsigns by heart?
"Now what does that sign mean? I think ill stop here on the railroad crossing to read up on it in my book"

 

[del_mo]

I know it's already been stated here, but just because it sounds like a good idea does not make it a good idea. I can't imagine a new OW student not having interaction with an instructor in a classroom setting. I can't imagine giving the keys to a potentially lethal sport to someone who answered some online questions correctly. I can't imagine me not being able to ask dumb/not so dumb/and potentially insightful questions of my classroom instructor. I have no problem with e-classrooms for other levels in diver instruction...just not beginning instruction. It's dangerous.

 

[String]

e-learning as far as i see it so far also is only available to shops, the person becomes tied to that for the practical training.
This pretty much means independent instructors cant offer it so putting them at a disadvantage.
Things like this and PIC Online etc swing the balance towards shops and away from instructor.

Additional content should be taught in person at the shop - theres no excuse for making the course less thorough just because its online.
Nobody is seriously thinking a student will do everything online, turn up at a shop and just be handed scuba and taken into the water without so much as a talk surely ?

As a concept itself though its a good idea. Yes some people learn better with a real person however a lot prefer to do it at their own pace in their own time. The internet is here, its not going away and it will be used more and more for training and not just in diving related areas.

 

[Jim Lapenta]

e-learning as far as i see it so far also is only available to shops, the person becomes tied to that for the practical training.
This pretty much means independent instructors cant offer it so putting them at a disadvantage.
Things like this and PIC Online etc swing the balance towards shops and away from instructor.

Additional content should be taught in person at the shop - theres no excuse for making the course less thorough just because its online.
Nobody is seriously thinking a student will do everything online, turn up at a shop and just be handed scuba and taken into the water without so much as a talk surely ?

As a concept itself though its a good idea. Yes some people learn better with a real person however a lot prefer to do it at their own pace in their own time. The internet is here, its not going away and it will be used more and more for training and not just in diving related areas.

And what about the instructor who is not affiliated with a shop. PADI already discriminates against them with the costs of materials, no online pics, little to no support from company reps, and it's all about dollars. Many instructors in smaller shops that are less busy may schedule academic classes during shop hours. Ideal no but in this way they are able to keep costs down since they have to be there anyway. It's also a good thing IMO as the new student may have the chance to interact with other divers, see actual gear being bought, get recommendations from others, etc. So conducting academic classes does not take up that much more of the instructors time enabling him to keep his costs down. I have not yet read the entire training bulletin but will in the next few days. Things have been crazy busy the last few weeks. But those who try to keep costs down and still make a living will now have to perhaps up their costs to make up for the cut that PADI will take for the online. And what about the lost revenue from educational materials that they will now get online. Yeah the shop will not need as much inventory but still will lose money by not selling the crewpaks. Unless a student is still required to purchase one. Again I don't know since I've not read thru the materials. Also, it will drive down wages for instructors(not that they make much anyway as it is) by forcing one to affiliate and how many instructors can a shop support before they have to say hey if you want to work we need to cut costs cause we had 3 instructors and now we have 6, 8, or 10. It can also not replace the insight a good one gets of his students by interacting with them not just in the pool but in 3 or 4 class sessions.

And there is also the very real possibility that some less scrupulous owners will see the opportunity to do just the thing you mentioned. Take an unknown, give a few perfunctory pool sessions, 4 quick ow dives, and voila! Certified diver and we all have seen someone who looks like that is just what happened even with the way things are now.

E learning is a valuable tool in some areas. Diving I do not believe is one of them. I'm probably going to take the DAN ear seminar sometime in the future. I think that's a safe course as long as I don't try to start treating people as an ear doctor.

Personally IMO the path they are taking with this is wrong and potentially dangerous. I'll probably be involved with it as a DM but if it comes down to it when I decide to go the instructor route if I do the PADI IDC and IE and start seeing real problems I'll switch to another agency after letting them know about my concerns. Either that or just not participate in it. It opens diving up to lots of new people. Some of whom probably should not be anywhere near water let alone on life support gear and with others who are also.

 

[stiggy]

E learning does have a place in the future for sure.ANY agency that does not follow suit will over time be at a disadvantage.

However should it replace Real teaching with a instructor ? NO
Will it work in all of PADIs markerts ? NO


The local dive schools with a consistant locally based customer base(weekend warriors) will benefit,They have got to know there divers allready or new divers are generally introduced via a "club member

For the tourist basd side of the industry resorts etc this could in my humble opinion cause problems and be potentially dangerous.some one shows up with there aca done and wants to dive after taking a quick test...No Way would I accept this.

Also to consider.

The independant instructor is now getting more and more pressure to affiliate with a store just to access materials pics etc.

The dive ceter will suffer for eg in Asia you can get a OW course for betwwen 150- 300 dollars.

Currently Pic and book will cost 54 dollars
New Elearning cost student 60 dollars (confirmed by PADI regional office)

114 dollars to PADI before they get wet from a 200 dollar course ....no wonder standards of equipment etc drop.
so why not put price up?

The small school then has to try and compete with PADIS big boys who have business deals that are not offered to all, and using said deal (i Know of a school in Thailand that pays at least 40 % less then there competition )deliberty keep the price low.

Now e learning availible as a extra learning tool at a cheap price 5dollars with existing standards in place now thats a different matter,will PADI do this no one word PROFIT.