The future of this forum

[lamont]

Same question, for you, however, regarding the recent DIR rift. Question is, don't you now need to further differentiate between "GUE-DIR" and "AG-DIR"?

I think, but am not certain, that the original rift occurred over the issue of deco on the fly, but I may be mistaken.

But for example, what if one of them now adopts the position that dual bladders are perfectly feasible, such as for warm water tech ops with lite wetsuits? The alternative being to require you to go out and buy a whole new set of aluminum twin tanks and rely on them as your backup buoyancy, since for warm water tech ops you would not normally be wearing a drysuit? Or to rely on drysuits even in warm waters?

Ultimately doesn't it depend on who decides what the orthodoxy shall be? Either JJ or AG?

That is my question, which I wonder about, as I watch the protocols develop, in both camps of the rift, from my viewpoint. I believe that the DIR protocols are worthy of everyone's consideration, to improve their own diving methodology.

It's just a question. I hope nobody gets emotionally involved in it.

The problem is that the protocols aren't fundamentally all that different. AG isn't off diving with an Air2 and a pony bottle. So what you're doing is using a few differences and a few arguments to derive a slippery slope to where everything needs to be discussed and argued endlessly. Sorry. Pony bottles and Air2's aren't DIR, will never be DIR and everyone who is remotely trained in DIR is going to have gone through all these arguments in the past and long since made up their mind. If the DIR forum is considered open to these kinds of questions due to some kind of "moral relativism" over what defines DIR since it can't be defined in some kind of ontologically absolute way, then its just going to chase off people that don't give a **** anymore about arguing about pony bottles.

 

[Cacia]

I would be very cautious about any suggestions about closing or 'the future" of any SB forum made by members who are now very active on other "new" sites.

I keep seeing a lot of comments about how much more serious/ better other sites are
by people that are spending time to post here.

not meaning you specifically Kim, but in general.

 

[rjack321]

Let's face it. This is a site where noobs learn about DIR. I am willing to occasionally give back and contribute to their understanding. Its not a site where there are enough "upper level" DIR divers (training+experience beyond Tech/Cave1) so that I can post my own questions and get legit DIR discussion about the pros and cons of the potentially several "DIR" ways of doing something.

Assuming no fundemental shifts in its population; it will continue to dwell on pony bottles, Air2 instead of backup regs, nit picking over 5 to 7 ft hoses, how to stow hoses without a canister light, redundant bouyancy, why shouldn't I clip off my gauge to my chest d-ring, the magical "balanced rig", and all the other issues which routinuely come up.

 

[Kim]

I would be very cautious about any suggestions about closing or 'the future" of any SB forum made by members who are now very active on other "new" sites.

I keep seeing a lot of comments about how much more serious/ better other sites are
by people that are spending time to post here.

not meaning you specifically Kim, but in general.

I have no idea Catherine. If you re-read my first post in this thread I described this forum as "valuable". I have absolutely no suggestion to close it, or any other suggestion as to the future of SB. That's totally up to the owner IMO. As far as I'm aware I've never referred to any other site by way of comparison, or anything else, in my posts here.

SB is what it is. No more and no less.

 

[Kim]

Let's face it. This is a site where noobs learn about DIR.

That's about my take on it too, and that's valuable IMO. It's certainly the place that I first heard about it.

 

[rjack321]

That's about my take on it too, and that's valuable IMO. It's certainly the place that I first heard about it.

Exactly, it has its place in the Internet diving world. It's valuable as an introduction. Its not frustrating if you don't have unrealistic expectations in the first place.

 

[ArcticDiver]

Actually that's the fundemental problem. Those with no authority, no experience, no training are hogging all the bandwidth with questions that have been answered ad nauseum both here and in obvious resources - like the DIRF book.

Those of us who want to consider the nuances of marking a line for a lost buddy when you're past the point in a cave where the established arrows have changed directions look elsewhere. Ditto for the myriad of other questions which can be raised about stage use, leashes, multitasking on a scooter with compass and reel (at the same time). We go elsewhere to discuss this stuff. Why's that? Cause this place has too many texdiveguys or just the plain ignorant interjecting themselves.

Actually, I will have to strongly disagree about what the fundemental problem is.

In all my life's endeavors, and diving is no different, the maximum effectiveness and fun came when the participants did not bow to an "authority" on how to do things. Instead they used information from their Instructors, their experience and their fellow participants. In diving terms they were "Thinking Divers".

The problem is not with this forum. It is with people who do not want to be Thinking Divers. They want someone to use a Command Structure to pass down the diving equivalent of military orders. For, those people this forum has been, is now and will, I suspect, always be frustrating.

My best advise for those folks is to either revise their expectations, or find a place where they can get The Word directly from The Authority, if they can find such a place that is.

For the rest of us who see a good thing, like its' key points and have a passion for diving, being able to discuss the pertinent factors of this style diving is very valuable. A person does not need to be a master of all to be a valuable source of information. All they need is an opportunity to explain their view so it can be understood and evaluated by others. This is that place for me.

 

[Charlie99]

Let's face it. This is a site where noobs learn about DIR.

That is a GOOD thing.

Just like on the non-DIR side, where both Scubaboard and TheDecoStop have their place. The exposure of new divers to DIR is one reason it would be, IMO, a big mistake to make this forum opt in only.

 

[nereas]

The problem is that the protocols aren't fundamentally all that different. AG isn't off diving with an Air2 and a pony bottle. So what you're doing is using a few differences and a few arguments to derive a slippery slope to where everything needs to be discussed and argued endlessly. Sorry. Pony bottles and Air2's aren't DIR, will never be DIR and everyone who is remotely trained in DIR is going to have gone through all these arguments in the past and long since made up their mind. If the DIR forum is considered open to these kinds of questions due to some kind of "moral relativism" over what defines DIR since it can't be defined in some kind of ontologically absolute way, then its just going to chase off people that don't give a **** anymore about arguing about pony bottles.

Air2s & pony bottles ... nice rhetorical straw-men, Lamont.

Just remember that you introduced them; I did not.

 

[nereas]

The Gavin and the X have fought to a draw, kinda like North and South Korea. Thank goodness nobody dives in the Mississippi River and that can serve as a DMZ

I love my X-Scooter. Very light weight, so that I could actually carry 2 of them at once. And 5 variable speeds on the fly!

It surprises me that a rift would develop over a topic like a DPV. I am wondering if this was not more like the proverbial final straw instead.

Rifts are inevitable, in any association. I would have sooner expected that a drysuit brand issue would have caused a rift sooner. But I am very surprised that a rift could develop over a DPV.