The Economy & Gas Prices...

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shotthebreeze

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Alright, I'm sick of p*&%ing away money at the pump and I'm sure sick of this inflation crap. What's going to happen with our economy and these gas prices? I want some ideas from you guys...

Is it going to get worse and then better, or is it going to get worse and stay that way?
 
Gas prices may go down a bit, but you won't see $2.50 a gallon again, probably be lucky if it ever gets down to $3. Costs will arise all around for food, clothing, travel etc...all of it depends on gas. Moreover, the cheap chinese labor market is starting to ebb as workers get paid a little better...So, you are looking at higher costs in general. The US needs to get out in front of alternative energy technology, if for no other reason than because it will be a huge economic force and to fail to get out in front means being run over in the international markets. Bottled water (if you ever buy it) is about $8/gallon (in the small bottles you find in vending machines) so the price of gas isn't all that bad.
 
I just boat a new boat and the engine is a 250 outboard compared to the 140 I had but gas and its price fortunately has not really been a factor as of yet.
 
Bottled water (if you ever buy it) is about $8/gallon (in the small bottles you find in vending machines) so the price of gas isn't all that bad.

Very true, I guess you put that one into perspective. But gas prices aside, prices on everything keep going up and no one's getting a raise...
 
About the bottled water thing. I rarely, if ever, buy bottled water. I don't like the water companies coming into my state and sucking up as much water as they can so that they can ship it somewhere and sell it for some ridiculous price, nor do I want to pay that ridiculous price for something I can put in a cooler in the morning and bring with me.

I do, however, buy gas. Even in the little four cylinder roller skate pickup I drive right now, I put between $120 and $150 into the tank every week, considering the distance I have to drive.

It hurts.

But, I think that in the end, these high gas prices will be a plus. It is good to see that we are finally starting to think about getting serious about alternative energy, fuel efficiency, etc. In the long run, the financial pain we feel because of high energy prices is the very thing that is creating a market for a long term solution to the core problem.
 
Gas prices are now $4.09/gallon in Key West. What concerns me as well is the price of food. $4/box for Honey Nut Cheerios? And the devious manufacturers have made the boxes just slightly smaller thinking the consumer won't notice.
 
To put it in perspective:

I pay between 8 and 9 $ per gallon in Belgium. We are at the moment 'protected' since the dollar vs euro is in our favor. If the value of the $ rises again this will get worse.

Face it... we are over the top in oil production... so it will get more and more in limited supply. Next to that demand is rising from the 3rd world countries who's economy is boosting (India and China mostly).

Since most other prices (food, etc) are linked to energy they obviously also go up.

As already said... alternative energy resources are going to become much more economically viable because the cheap competitor is going to become much more expensive (you might even say... that oil as an energy source has always been undervalued).

IMO the transition period between energy sources will be very hard.
 
Alright, I'm sick of p*&%ing away money at the pump and I'm sure sick of this inflation crap. What's going to happen with our economy and these gas prices? I want some ideas from you guys...

Is it going to get worse and then better, or is it going to get worse and stay that way?




WE CAN'T CHANGE....IT IS ALL WE KNOW!

We have the tiger by the tail, we CAN'T let go and all hell is going to break loose soon

When the subject turns to sustainability...lets be honest, we only pay it lip service.

We talk of living in a sustainable world, yet our actions betray our true feelings. All we have to do is to look at the stock market to see what happens when growth declines even a little.

Even if a company yields stable earning, but does not grow its earnings it is looked down upon. Stability and balance is part of a sustainable footprint, yet we shun such balance.

A good book that discusses concepts of sustainability is: 'Peak Everything' by Richard Heinberg

America is built on debt and spending.

Without compulsive spending and conspicuous consumption we would fail as a country.

70% of our 'economic heath,' better termed as 'economic sickness' is based on consumer spending. When the consumer can't compulsively spend any longer our economy collapses...we are not a healthy country.

China on the other hand is built on selling its output not only to its countries citizens but the entire world...especially the USA. America has become the bitch of China.

With one breath we talk about cutting global warming and how we have to cut our dependence of fossil fuel.

Then with the next breath we demand no cut backs in our standard of living, we must spend and consume above all else...build more, build faster, build bigger.

The GDP must only go up, up and away...all the while this consumption just increases global warming and keeps depleting the fossil fuels faster and faster. Sick...sick..sick mentality, buy more cars, build more houses and monstrosities of architecture, spend more but 'cut back' to save our dear fossil fuels.

And leading the pack of over consumers is the USA.

NationMaster - Oil > Consumption (most recent) by country

Consumption is ingrained in us and we know no other way. And even if we wished to amend our ways, how could all our retirement funds take the hit?

Our world population has grown to levels where it has passed the point of no return for supporting a sustainable human population as we know it today when it comes to their energy demands.

And what does all that consumerism lead to?

It leads to the mess we are in now and the bigger mess the world will be in once India and China pick up momentum to copycat the envious lifestyle that they have held in high esteem as the 'American Dream'

The problem is not with the earth having enough land for all its people - the problem is with earth providing ad infinitum for all the needs the people crave.

The more people born, the more heat is produced from their life and all their cravings, As such, the warmer and more polluted the earth gets and the more energy they all use and the earths resources are depleted.

Fueling the problem of consumption is the games the Federal and World banks play with interest rates. They manage the economies in ways to fuel consumption and mask the real trend.

Witness the recent cries for Federal bankers to lower interest rates...so the stock market can go up...fueled by spending of the consumer.

It is drug habit that Greenspan got us hooked on and we just can't get away from.

Our economy is not based on sustainable health - it is based low interest credit to encourage compulsive spending, debt and living a life of constant consumption with a 'disposable mentality' when it comes to durable goods.

All this consumption to artificially fuel our economy to make our retirement funds only go up contributes to more and more global warming and the depletion of our natural resources.

Then the governments juggle the numbers to make the inflation figures seem artificially low, so everyone's retirement portfolio will make them happy so they will continue to buy and consume more...and on it goes....IT IS ALL WE KNOW and the bill is coming due soon!

No doubt some of the increase in crude is due to greed, speculation and hype. And, it may all be true that what we have been told about peak oil is in fact a hoax.

Same as the skeptics that claim global warming is a hoax.

It may all be a conspiracy, just a cruel trick on the consumer to line the pockets of industry with more money...only time will settle this debate

The Myth Of Peak Oil

Conspiracy Planet - Voodoo Science - 'Peak Oil' Scam Unravels, Oil Reserves Increasing

Mike Ruppert and the myth of Peak Oil « Aftermath News

A letter from oil exploration insider | EnergyBulletin.net | Peak Oil News Clearinghouse

The top 3 users of crude are the US, China and Japan.

They consume almost 12 billion barrels of crude a year ( 11,987,330,000 barrels) .

Collectively the world uses 31 billion barrels of oil a year (31,015,410,000)

NationMaster - Oil > Consumption (most recent) by country

If the Peak Oil skeptics think the supply of fossil fuel is limitless and we can keep on burning billions upon billions of barrels a year of crude forever, then they are sadly mistaken.

I always tell the proponents saying peak oil is a conspiracy and think that we have an unlimited amount of oil, natural gas, coal, uranium...actions speak louder than words.

We can look at Hubbert's prediction of the USA's peak.

Peak oil - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

He was exactly right.

We can look at global oil production and see what the general trend is.

Look at the UK and other countries like the US that had been energy exporters in their heyday. Now they are all energy importers.

See:

A Crude Awakening / The Oil Crash

We can look at the trend in drilling to see how deep we have to go to find oil. How many big finds are being made?

We can look at the quality of crude being produced.

Is it light sweet crude or high sulfur, heavy, hard to refine crude?

The light sweet is just that 'light' and is on the surface of the oil pool. Whereas the less desirable heavy sulfated crude is on the bottom of the pool. Does the phrase hitting the bottom the barrel mean anything to you?

Lately we have been putting much of our hope in the tar sands of Canada.

When we have to get the oil out of the sand and shale it sounds like we are hitting the bottom of the barrel again. Even talk about getting our gas from refining bitumen coal.

Now, some people say we are saving the light sweet crude for national defense and using the foreign oil and tar sands first. I don't know, I have no inside information about that claim.

We get about 15% of our natural gas from Canada. That 15% amounts to 50% of the natural gas Canada produces. The US sucks down more energy than any other country...no one can come close to us.

Our demands for natural gas are on the rise, just as our demands are for all fossil fuels. Once demand outstrips production we are headed over Hubert's peak in any number of areas besides crude. We can see peak production issues in natural gas, uranium, food or water, just as we will see with crude oil.

It is an easy task to see how much oil is produced in the world. But finding the 'exact peak date' for world oil production is hard to pinpoint. (see peak oil section)

Petroleum - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

For one thing, some countries production are erratic and they are not transparent with their real production and discovery data.

Also oil production is not an exact science and still requires a little luck. We may find a lucky hit down the road that brings in a gusher to distort some of the figures.

No one knows the exact peak date for world oil production, but we do know that time will come in the not so distant future. But finding the peak is not hard problem once we can look back on it by a few years....but we need some time to do it...again, only time will settle this debate.

"If the public does think briefly about future oil supplies, the question usually asked is, "How long will oil last?" This is the wrong question. Oil will be extracted in some insignificant quantity perhaps 200 years from now. The critical question is: When does the peak of world oil production occur?" ~ Richard C. Duncan

Check out:

Beyond Oil: the view from Hubbert's Peak
by Deffeyes, Kenneth S.
Hubbert's Peak, Home

The Coming Economic Collapse - how you can thrive when oil costs $200 a barrel
by Leeb, Stephen

A Crude Awakening - the oil crash
Lava Productions AG, Switzerland DVD
A Crude Awakening / The Oil Crash

The End of Suburbia - oil depletion and the collapse of the American dream
by Greene, Gregory DVD
THE END OF SUBURBIA

High Noon for Natural Gas: the new energy crisis
by Darley, Julian
High Noon for Natural Gas: The New Energy Crisis

The Long Emergency: surviving the converging catastrophes of the twenty-first century
by Kunstler, James Howard

Oil Apocalypse
History channel DVD

Peak Oil Survival: preparation for life after gridcrash
by McBay, Aric

Powerdown: options and actions for a post-carbon world
by Heinberg, Richard

Resource Wars: the new landscape of global conflict
by Klare, Michael T
Amazon.com: Resource Wars: The New Landscape of Global Conflict With a New Introduction by the Author: Michael T. Klare: Books

A Thousand Barrels a Second: the coming oil break point and the challenges facing an energy dependent world
by Tertzakian, Peter

Twilight in the Desert: the coming Saudi oil shock and the world economy
by Simmons, Matthew R.
Well written book examining 12 of the key Saudi oil fields.

Who Killed the Electric Car?
Sony Pictures Classics release
Sony Pictures Classics Presents : Who Killed the Electric Car?

Zoom:the global race to fuel the car of the future
by Iain Carson and Vijay V. Vaitheeswaran.

Also see:

http://www.worldoil.com/INFOCENTER/STATISTICS_DETAIL.as...=_worldoilproduction

Welcome to M. K. Hubbert Center

http://www.mnforsustain.org/duncan_and_youngquist_encir..., And The Peak
 
One other thing guys...

If you got some international diving to do - do it now. The airlines will be history in a few years.
 
I just boat a new boat and the engine is a 250 outboard compared to the 140 I had but gas and its price fortunately has not really been a factor as of yet.

It's a 2 minute test, if you are a DM or an Instructor and you remember the amount of CO2 is in the atmosphere, you should score 100% Pass this on to your friends that bow at the altar of Hollywood, and Algore.


The Global Warming Test
 

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