The continuing sagas of the Blue Heron Bridge

[danvolker]

The only thing they were after was the Panther grouper (unlike the 2 collectors from last week scooping up puffers etc). This fish, which doesn't belong in these waters, is probably a more voracious predatory eater than the lionfish or at least an equal threat..
Cheers from me that they are trying to protect Blue Heron/Phil Foster Parks native fish & other critters by removing something that could cause potential damage.
Deb

I would be shocked to find out they were actually trying to remove a "threat" , that just does not sound like the real reason they were there. It is not consistent with agency behavior for an area like BHB.
Also in perspective, for thousands of years the grey groupers migrated through our reefs from the Carrolina area after the first big cold snap each year. Decades of commercial fishing for them (and spearfishing in the80's and90's) led to massive destruction of their population, due to the aggregation behavior of the fish, and the effect of concentrated fishing efforts on an aggregating species like this. Around the year 2001, there were virtually no grey groupers left, and we stopped seeing the migrations come through here-- there were just no more Grey groupers....what we did get was a new non indigenous grouper that moved into the hole left in the ecosystem by the removal of the grey groupers...this was called a leopard grouper if memory serves, but could potentially have been this panther species....
So when man destroys one grouper species, why should we decide we should also destroy the species that try's to fill the void left.
One thing we KNOW.....the South Atlantic Marine Fisheries responsible for setting limits and maintaining "sustainable fisheries" , has proven constantly they have no clue whatsoever in how to "scientifically" manage the fisheries--the proof to this being the massive changes WE have seen in grouper and snapper populations on our reefs since the 70's. For government groups to pretend now to be " Righteous" is more than annoying. If they want us to believe there is any good they are going to do, they need to start proving it by there actions, and open up a full court press on advertising and explaining their NEW Agenda.

 

[dumpsterDiver]

..... For government groups to pretend now to be " Righteous" is more than annoying. If they want us to believe there is any good they are going to do, they need to start proving it by there actions, and open up a full court press on advertising and explaining their NEW Agenda.

Which is is Dan? Don't trust government! But we must lobby the State government to take away our rights to recreationally take tropical marine life at the BHB!

Do we really want the governement to further restrict divers in our local area? I think they need to first do something about all those silt kickers. Sunday was the worst I have ever seen! I think I've seen cleaner dredging operations (talk about NTU's)!

Maybe the instructors need to erect silt screens around the classes?

BTW, Is it time to stop the charade Dan? We must both know that the is NO VALID, ENFORCEABLE LAW against collection of tropicals at the BHB. The County "ordinance" is not legitimate and can not and will not be enforced. (I got this is writing as well, from the man in charge at the County)...Or is it a "moral issue" to keep pretending?

"Disdain" for government officials collecting (exotic) tropicals...

 

[mntlblok]

curses

Today was octopus day....we saw 9 of them out. They were all over the place. Shot lots of photos (a few even came out - damn that slippery macro button!) I treat seeing two or three as a big day. This morning was awesome! A couple wanted to reach for the camera lens...

I'm still stoked.



Still, one of my best days at the bridge!

 

[danvolker]

Which is is Dan? Don't trust government! But we must lobby the State government to take away our rights to recreationally take tropical marine life at the BHB!

Do we really want the governement to further restrict divers in our local area? I think they need to first do something about all those silt kickers. Sunday was the worst I have ever seen! I think I've seen cleaner dredging operations

BTW, Is it time to stop the charade Dan? We must both know that the is NO VALID, ENFORCEABLE LAW against collection of tropicals at the BHB. The County "ordinance" is not legitimate and can not and will not be enforced. (I got this is writing as well, from the man in charge at the County)...Or is it a "moral issue" to keep pretending?

"Disdain" for government officials collecting (exotic) tropicals...

First, there are good government agencies, and bad...those who have been managing fishing I don't think much of....and to be clear, it is not the fault of those hired to enforce the rules--they do the best they can with what they have to work with.......the bad seeds are those who make up the pseudo-science that has failed so badly to prevent over-fishing...

I will help you with the charade part....I don't like any collector that thinks it is just fine to collect at bhb. I look forward to making this point in person, to as many collectors as possible.
You wil be one I would make this clear to in person, if you were not afraid to make your real name and identity known here. as of now, you are living the charade that you are "one of us", that you are part of the BHB diving community. Why not tell the truth- you have nothing but disdain for the regulars diving at bhb. Why do you even bother to post here, where the majority of regulars will be forced by your behavior, to think of you as a pariah ( an undesirable in redkneck-speak).

Maybe we should start a new thread.... "Do we really need Dumpster Divers and Collectors" ?

 

[Scott L]

Anyone who needs the income of removing tropicals from BHB should find a new primary career. Vocation training expense grants are readily available.

 

[adurso]

If the law prohibiting the taking of tropicals underwater is unclear, or unenforceable, the locals need to get the politicians to clarify the law.

Harassing people who are not violating the law opens up a can of potential liability, both criminal,and civil, for those who beleive they are helping maintain the status quo.

 

[dumpsterDiver]

First, there are good government agencies, and bad...those who have been managing fishing I don't think much of....and to be clear, it is not the fault of those hired to enforce the rules--they do the best they can with what they have to work with.......the bad seeds are those who make up the pseudo-science that has failed so badly to prevent over-fishing...

I will help you with the charade part....I don't like any collector that thinks it is just fine to collect at bhb. I look forward to making this point in person, to as many collectors as possible.
You wil be one I would make this clear to in person, if you were not afraid to make your real name and identity known here. as of now, you are living the charade that you are "one of us", that you are part of the BHB diving community. Why not tell the truth- you have nothing but disdain for the regulars diving at bhb. Why do you even bother to post here, where the majority of regulars will be forced by your behavior, to think of you as a pariah ( an undesirable in redkneck-speak).

Maybe we should start a new thread.... "Do we really need Dumpster Divers and Collectors" ?

Now Dan.. You are taking this too personally. Well maybe I harbor a little disdain for the bicycle kicking students; but we need to remember that they have probably been in the pool only 2 times before diving there.

I don't support (unnecessary) additional government regulation of divers and I think as Americans we should exercise our legal rights. It bothers me a little when incorrect information is disseminated in order to mislead particular user groups.

I bet 95% of the people who post here are under the impression that there is some kind of valid prohibition against collection at the BHB; I appreciate your honesty in not arguing that point.

I think it is great that you are trying to do something about water quality at the site, those are the kind of issues that are of real concern.

I won't call you any names, but sometimes you go over the top.. Exotic Panther grouper displacing gag grouper in the Palm Beach ecosystem around 2001??????...

It's not my fault, you keep giving me more and more material..

 

[danvolker]

If the law prohibiting the taking of tropicals underwater is unclear, or unenforceable, the locals need to get the politicians to clarify the law.

Harassing people who are not violating the law opens up a can of potential liability, both criminal,and civil, for those who beleive they are helping maintain the status quo.

I'm not going to harass...but there is no law that I have to pretend to like people I don't like....
As to my silt diver ideas , there is no law that any of us can not follow around any divers we want to. Some of us are just not really good at not scaring fish, and some of us just have a tendency to silt up the bottom

 

[danvolker]

Now Dan.. You are taking this too personally. Well maybe I harbor a little disdain for the bicycle kicking students; but we need to remember that they have probably been in the pool only 2 times before diving there.

I don't support (unnecessary) additional government regulation of divers and I think as Americans we should exercise our legal rights. It bothers me a little when incorrect information is disseminated in order to mislead particular user groups.

I bet 95% of the people who post here are under the impression that there is some kind of valid prohibition against collection at the BHB; I appreciate your honesty in not arguing that point.

I think it is great that you are trying to do something about water quality at the site, those are the kind of issues that are of real concern.

I won't call you any names, but sometimes you go over the top.. Exotic Panther grouper displacing gag grouper in the Palm Beach ecosystem around 2001??????...

It's not my fault, you keep giving me more and more material..

The problem is, I dont separate anything from personal....not in business, not in this.

As to the grouper issue, I was actively spearfishing in the 80s and 90's, and I remember when the new species of grouper suddenly began appearing on reefs that previously would have had grey groupers in the same ledges, structures, and areas.
As it has been quite a while since I have even seen those groupers, I don't recall what the actual name for them was...someone on here certainly would--it was common knowledge around 2001-2003.
In the late seventies, there were as many snappers over the bottom of our reefs as we saw grunts on the bottom in the 90's. In the 80's, we saw so many grouper on most dives off juno that you really would have to consider how many you wanted to take on a given day. Today, if we see ONE grouper on a reef, that is a good day for grouper spotting (not counting the Goliath Groupers, which are far more common now than any other grouper species...Gee, I wonder why ? )

My point was, the agency does not involve itself with enough real science to make me feel that they are on the right road by calling this an invasive species that needs to be removed--this could be code for allowing commercial fisherman to rape and pillage a species with good monetary value. Or, maybe it really is a bad species--if so, how about an informational campaign with good scientific references, and peer review? At least then, WE could read the studies and research articles, critique them, and decide if this is good science or bad and mis-used science.

 

[adurso]

I'm not going to harass...but there is no law that I have to pretend to like people I don't like....
As to my silt diver ideas , there is no law that any of us can not follow around any divers we want to. Some of us are just not really good at not scaring fish, and some of us just have a tendency to silt up the bottom

I was thinking more of those who confront others in the parking lot.

You do not need to pretend to like anyone, and if your bouyancy control wavers and you bounce off the bottom near collectors, or demonstrate "new diver" mistakes near collectors, oh well...

I forsee problems for well intentioned people who confront others above water in the mistaken belief that collectors are violating the law, when in fact, there does not seem to be any law.