The changing Scuba Industry

[drrich2]

In terms of whether the demographic on a given trip match the desires of a given diver, perhaps it's time for the tail to wag the dog a bit. Some might wonder if businesses ought to tailor their product to the wants/needs to a new demographic - lower income 20's divers, millennials, etc... There's another way (sorry if this was brought up in an earlier post; I'm reluctant to review over 30 pages of prior posts just in case).

There are specialty groups, such as singles or women, who organize dive trips. There are large special interest groups, such as gays, who charter some cruise ship cruises. My point is, instead of waiting for an industry provider to offer a product that draws, oh, let's say millennials, perhaps someone who enjoys that age group would like to found a relevant group and charter set weeks then recruit from that demographic. If you charter the whole boat, you may have flexibility in the itinerary, and at least provide a particular passenger mix.

Perhaps the scuba industry more broadly should encourage more of these special interest-based travel clubs? I wonder which would be most successful?

Richard.

 

[woodcarver]

Oh, the blissful ignorance of youth....

Even in the short time I have been diving, I've seen some change in the business. I do think the LDS that wants to be around 5 or 10 years from now must adapt to the changes in the market. This would be from what's become a global market of goods via the internet, to the aging of the clientele. They also need to recognize the value added of GOOD customer service.
A consistent theme I've seen in this thread is what seems to define the "good" LDS from the "bad". Customer service. I'm fairly price conscious, but am willing to spend some premium at our LDS for the same product, typically the large $ items such as regs and bcds. The little stuff I typically buy online. That's more due to the LDS being an hour drive away. But Underwater Connections DOES have very good customer service. They have also started an online store and seem to have fairly competitive pricing.
They spend money advertising on the local TV stations. They are setting up more and more shop trips. Since we are fairly limited on local diving, this is a means to develop and build the local dive community. Most of these trips seem to sell out; indicates there is a market for them. Built a much bigger, nicer facility.
All of these steps are driven by a need to compete with all the other options people have for their outdoor dollars, especially here in Colorado. We have a plethora of fabulous options to spend time outdoors. The exception would be a good dive site. But they are adapting and expanding SUP, swim lessons, some other stuff. Biggest thing they have going for them is good people in the shop.
Didn't mean to make this a plug for them, but they seem to be doing well in contrast to what others have described about their local shop. And I do think local shops need to be around or diver numbers will shrink.

 

[Steve_C]

most of the dive clubs are predominantly locals that skew older as they learned to dive in the 60s/70s. the sf scuba meetup is younger, but only a small number are looking to do more than a handful of dives on a trip and good candidates for a liveaboard.

So if I understand your statements correctly
-You do not want to dive with old folks
-Young folks have short attention spans and are not serious about diving and want variety
-You do not like the local young divers because they do not want to do enough dives.

Seems to have painted oneself into a logical box.

 

[runsongas]

I am in one of those dive clubs where the members have aarp cards. I solo travel and don't worry about who else is on the liveaboard.

 

[markmud]

In terms of whether the demographic on a given trip match the desires of a given diver, perhaps it's time for the tail to wag the dog a bit. Some might wonder if businesses ought to tailor their product to the wants/needs to a new demographic - lower income 20's divers, millennials, etc... There's another way (sorry if this was brought up in an earlier post; I'm reluctant to review over 30 pages of prior posts just in case).

There are specialty groups, such as singles or women, who organize dive trips. There are large special interest groups, such as gays, who charter some cruise ship cruises. My point is, instead of waiting for an industry provider to offer a product that draws, oh, let's say millennials, perhaps someone who enjoys that age group would like to found a relevant group and charter set weeks then recruit from that demographic. If you charter the whole boat, you may have flexibility in the itinerary, and at least provide a particular passenger mix.

Perhaps the scuba industry more broadly should encourage more of these special interest-based travel clubs? I wonder which would be most successful?

Richard.

Hello Richard,

I think your strategy of the tail wagging the dog is right on. I have been dealing with dive-trip let-down for years. Usually due to operators focusing on the lowest common denominator diver. I like diving intermediate to advanced recreational sites.

Even though I negotiate with operators months in advance, in writing, I am let down.

The only exception to this pattern was on the SB Bonaire Surge of January 18. Dennis teamed my wife and I with an excellent group of divers. We dove an intermediate site on the first dive and were doing intermediate to advanced sites everyday. It was a blast.

Unfortunately, life gets in the way. Job, family, fitness, and other avocations stop me from organizing advanced recreational divers into some sort of club or guild.

You are correct, buying power allows you to dictate terms. Personally, by myself, I don't have that.

thanks,
markm

 

[REVAN]

I started a thread a couple days ago about how most liveaboards I've been on in my 20s have been full of older (50+ people) and if there were any that were younger. Someone pointed out it is a hallmark of the entire sport, and it got me thinking. I started diving in Hawaii when I was bored at a resort with my friends and decided to get a groupon for a diving certification. I liked it enough to buy a prescription mask that I still own. Since then I've been on 4+ liveaboards and multiple dives throughout Sipadan, Great Barrier Reef, Malapascua, Tulum, Turks and Caicos and now Maldives. The last two have been with Explorer, which while a great company I will never dive with again if I dive again. This is why:

1) culture clash of existing divers - Any young people who start diving are overwhelmed with all the old and not entirely welcome diver community. There is a real clash of cultures. The only millennials who have money to dive are probably like me - young, liberal, work in hot industries (tech, finance). Apparently having started out in the Navy and for some reason I don't understand profilgated in the Midwest and more Republican states most old divers I've met are from Utah, Idaho, Wyoming, Florida. Retired people in their 50-70s who cling to old ideas, are quite racist and sexist by my perspective (seriously this one dude Michael Ramsey on this boat called me a cockroach for being too aggressive - a quality that is prized in my current city of San Francisco - and something I'm convinced is due to racism/sexism - I'm an Asian female). They were in the military, run telemarketing firms (blergh), bankers, etc. nobody id ever meet or really gel with in real life. I've tried and I enjoy diving and I've met a couple amazing divers on my trips but there is something with the retired crowd that really reminds me of Trump supporters. And I bet a lot of them did. Also there is ageism in the tech industry so really I rarely meet anyone over the age of 45, and is argue techies are more likely to enjoy this sort of sport than finance types who want high luxury no effort.

2) not marketing to young people. We may prefer experiences, we want to rent and we want to do other things too. Why not let us? Dive boats can be used for so many things other than diving too. Nobody is marketing it this way which is why just 70 year olds go.

3) associated with old people - when I try to get my friends to go diving with me they generally say "aren't there a lot of old people?" I can't believe I hadn't thought of it before. They don't like the amount of equipment - barrier to entry is too high for millennials who want to try before they buy and want things now. They don't like how complicated everything is. Or how you have to fly somewhere tropical to see anything worthwhile. Or get in a dry suit which is worse. They want easy, fun things.

4) the sad state of the coral reefs. I hadn't realized the Maldives was as affected by coral bleaching until I got here. It is incredibly sad. It feels like walking through a graveyard to see the corals here. I remember my time diving the Great Barrier Reef 5 years ago or sipadan 6 years ago and they were amazing. I wonder if I'll ever see anything so beautiful again. I wonder if I keep diving the sadder I'll become about the sad state of the oceans reefs. It makes me reconsider my daily habits and how they contribute to climate change - and reconsider diving in general. What if the best dives are all behind me?

After diving now 6 years, I'm going to call it quits after this pretty disastrous Liveaboard with some incredibly boorish people I will be glad to never see again. Luckily I hadn't bought that much equipment - I just bought a dive computer >< - but in the interim I'll do some yoga, and enjoy my tech job perks.

@ivorynightfall: It may be healthy for you to try to exercise a little tolerance for other cultures. You come off as a highly bigoted personality, and I'm thinking it is likely interfering with your ability to get along with others in a social setting.

If you just don't want to be accepting of other people's "cultures" on a public liveaboard, I'd suggest you take some of that tech money you have so much of, and purchase or charter a private boat that you can stock with other people like you. Then everyone will be happy again. If you cannot integrate and tolerate, your next best option is to federate.

 

[The Chairman]

@ivorynightfall The bias against old people from someone who seems to detest bigotry was surprising.

@Murky Waters had the best post of this thread. The world seems to thrive on self-fulfilling prophecies. If you expect unfriendly people, you will surely find them.

The same is true for students. I expect them to do well, to frog kick successfully and to master trim and buoyancy... and they do. Imagine that.

 

[Midwesterndvr]

“The only millennial$ who have money to dive are probably like me”
Young (somewhat), Liberal (No), Work in “hot” industries (that’s subjective).

 

[billt4sf]

My wife and I are about to board a LOB here in Sorong for Raja Ampat. I find myself hoping that there aren't too many Americans or "old people". Usually there are people from a range of countries, many Europeans, a few Asians. The group you are with makes a lot of difference.

Said by a 65+ y.o. San Franciscan. So there you go. Just being honest about my limitations.

- Bill

 

[tarponchik]

Being young or old on a dive boat is not a question of marketing. To dive, you need both time and money, and vacations in the USA are miserably short. This is why divers from Europe or Asia or Australia that I see are on average younger than the Americans. And with those young who have both time and money, like our younger son and his wife (both work in high tech), advertising diving is useless. I've already described the yuppie's way of thinking here sometime ago: they want to try everything, but just once. They are both certified divers, but they had tried diving already. Now they want to watch Aurora Borealis in Iceland, or go to Madagascar to see the lemurs, or maybe go to Peru or Patagonia. Yuppies are eternal children, and children like new toys and games.

As for your political views, I suggest, keep the politics in the closet. You certainly do not want to end up in the situation described in the "Two Women Underwater" book. So when a retired sergeant from Arizona tells you that we shall nuke Iran or that Obama was born in Ken'ya, do not argue and pour your liberal heart out. Try to smile and say something like "Yeah, maybe...oh by the way, have you seen this really huge Moray that Mark found? It was totally awesome!" This usually works.