The Canadian Seal Slaughter

[wardric]

Here's the picture of 4 fathers, sons, friends, that lost their life and that some of you were making fun of. I dont mind any opinion on any subject, it's everyone's right. But some things I just cannot accept.

 

[Aquatic Eagle]

Here's the picture of 4 fathers, sons, friends, that lost their life and that some of you were making fun of. I dont mind any opinion on any subject, it's everyone's right. But some things I just cannot accept.

Wow, the picture on the left reminds me of Mark Whalberg in The Perfect Storm.

I agree. It doesn't matter what we're debating, there are some things that are not to be joked about.

 

[Ann Marie]

In the past there have been some explosive threads like this one where people are attacked instead of the issues and the threads get closed. Though I really don't like deleting posts (well, most posts anyway :joke there were some posts in this thread that were just uncalled for. I'd rather play the bad guy and heavily moderate this thread and ban the members that 'just don't get it' than to have to close the thread and cut short some great debates.

I've been told that ScubaBoard is the Disneyland of Scuba Forums. There are internet forums out there where members thrive on being hurtful. Who wants to spend time in that type of environment?? Call me naive but I've been a member on the 'Board for a long time and it's because I enjoy coming here. Some of my best friends I met on this forum! I'm heading to Invade the Keys in July and can't wait to put faces with more names!

I've had to delete some posts that were just off-topic banter that normally wouldn't have been a problem except when I have to uphold ALL the rules; and not just delete the posts that attack someone else.

I hope that ideas can still be shared in a respectful manner. I've found myself becoming more and more aware of the environment as I question how my consumer products (food, clothing, etc..) were handled and where they came from before I get them, and my impact on the environment. I think that most people now days are concerned about our impact on the Earth and each other. I can't do everything; I have to pick and choose what I CAN do to reduce my impact.

Anyway, I guess this is just my attempt on explaining why I've chosen to delete the posts I have. If any of you feel that your posts were unfairly deleted, you can send me a PM and I'll take another look. Or if you feel that I'm out to get you :voodoo: you can send an email to abuse@scubaboard.com and another staff member can look into it.

By the way, I don't know if everyone posting here knows about the Surface Interval Forum where where divers are free to chat about anything within the ToS and are free to let the conversation drift from topic to topic, much the same as chatting aboard the dive boat in between dives and The PUB where the rules are relaxed but off-topic is the topic; kind of like sitting in a Pub chatting over a Guinness. You have to 'opt' into these forums to see them (under your "User CP").

Thanks for listening. I stuck this post in green as an Advisor Post since I can't post as a Member in threads I'm moderating.

Cheers!

 

[fisherdvm]

ah, so you do agree that there is an economic measure of the value of "humane-ness".

Actually, there was a course in vet school specifically on the humane methods of destroying the animal. A bullet or a high velocity pneumatic gun between the eye into the brain is a humane way of destroying an animal. Certainly, one can be taught to utilize such a device. It is done in the slaughter of cattle.

Unfortunately, even in human execution by a rifle team, a bullet to the head is not acceptable. Not because it is inhumane, but it is stressful for the men volunteering for the rifle team.

 

[aquaman_06]

wardric,

I agree, the death of four Canadian fishermen is a terribly tragedy. To make light of that is wrong and I certainly was not one doing that. IMO it isn't funny when anything dies - man or animal. My heart goes out to the families of those four men. Four families who will likely encounter a host of emotional and financial struggles.

I will say as I have said that it's tough for me to differentiate the loss of one life as being more significant then the loss of another. Perhaps this seal hunt is the wrong idea from two perspectives. It is a barbaric and bloody way to murder an animal and it's far too dangerous and can cause an unnecessary loss of human life.

One this I will say about this comment fisher: Unfortunately, even in human execution by a rifle team, a bullet to the head is not acceptable. Not because it is inhumane, but it is stressful for the men volunteering for the rifle team.

Sad that a rifle team member's stress level would come before a human being's amount of suffering. Especially disturbing when we think that innocent people have been executed.

 

[fisherdvm]

To me, there are greater battles in life than to protect baby seals from clubbing. The battle to ban leg hold trap has been in the work for years, and is not successful. Partly because we can not create a trap as efficient as a leg hold trap. Most pets caught in a leg hold trap can safely be released, whereas, the more humane conibears kills non-targeted animals. Trappers have clubbed animals for years, yet we don't hear of complaints.

The necessity of animal control via hunting or trapping will likely be increased as man encroaches on animal's domain, and disrupt the normal life cycles of animals. We will have excesses of nuisance animals like nutria, coyote, and raccoons in residential neighborhoods. Already, within the last 3 years, there has been 2 or 3 cases of rabid red foxes in the Detroit suburb area, and coyotes are spotted regularly in the city.

I think we should focus our energy more in the alleviation of suffering by domesticated animals, farm animals, and research animals more than we should worry about the seals...

That is my 5 cents worth. And I am glad to have participated in a rational discussion with most of you folks.

 

[Papa_Bear]

Here is posting from Watson's MySpace:

I’m Not Ready to Make Nice

Commentary from Captain Paul Watson

As the Dixie Chicks said, "I’m not ready to make nice.
I have no apologies for defending the seals from their killers.
Bullies are notorious for whining like victims when the tables are turned.

Apparently the sealers and the Canadian Government are upset with me for making the following statement:

The Sea Shepherd Conservation Society recognizes that the deaths of four sealers is a tragedy but Sea Shepherd also recognizes that the slaughter of hundreds of thousands of seal pups is an even greater tragedy.

"One of the sealers was quoted as saying that he felt absolutely helpless as he watched the boat sink with sealers onboard." Said Captain Paul Watson. "I can’t think of anything that defines helplessness and fear more than a seal pup on the ice that can’t swim or escape as it is approached by some cigarette smoking ape with a club. This is a seal nursery and these men are sadistic baby killers and that might offend some people but it is the unvarnished truth – they are vicious killers who are now pleading for sympathy because some of their own died while engaged in a viciously brutal activity."

I’ve been asked to apologize and I’ve been accused of being insensitive.

A reporter from Halifax that I spoke with today was very angry and kept asking me how I dared to equate the lives of humans with the lives of seals. "These are animals," he said.

"Yes, and from what I remember from my biology classes, we are animals also." I replied.

This statement was issued by Canadian Fisheries Minister Loyola Hearn:

"By attacking and trivializing the memory of these men who tragically lost their lives, Mr. Watson has proven to the world that he is gutless, shameless, and has not one shred of human decency. His lust for media coverage knows no bounds.

"On behalf of the Government of Canada, I want to once again express our condolences to the family and loved ones of these sealers."

"Our government has said that it will stand up for the safety and security of sealers, and I want to confirm that the militant actions of the Sea Shepherd Society have not gone unnoticed are currently under investigation."

It is difficult to seriously accept criticisms of insensitivity from men who bash in the skulls of baby seals and I have to say that the opinion of Canada’s Minister of Fisheries means very little to me. After all I did not kill those men – he did.

It was Minister of Fisheries Loyola Hearn that authorized the use of unsafe vessels to kill seals. It was his government’s direct incompetence that resulted in the deaths of the four sealers. So his statement about standing up for the safety and security of the sealers is hollow to say the least.

When did documenting the slaughter of seals become a militant action?

I do not trivialize the death of these men by saying that the slaughter of hundreds of thousands of sentient beings is a "greater tragedy". I deplore the fact that government incompetence resulted in the death of four sealers but it is the same incompetence that has resulted in the collapse of the fisheries and it is Hearn’s political ambitions that continue to support and subsidize an industry that has no place in the 21st Century.

If expressing condolences to the families of the sealers helps Hearn to sleep at night then so be it. The fact is that these men died because of the government of Canada, and I expect and anticipate they will make Sea Shepherd the scapegoat for their incompetence."

The oldest political trick in the book is to deflect criticism by focusing hatred onto another party. Hitler did it with the Jews and Loyola Hearn is trying to do the same with us.

This is not anything new. The Canadian government has been using seal defenders as a distraction for years. By getting East coast fishermen to hate environmentalists and animal defenders they can reduce criticism of the notorious management problems that caused the total collapse of the cod fishery.

I find it amusing that the sealers expect me to be "sensitive" to their feelings. This bunch on the Magdalen Islands beat the crap out of me in 1995. Thirty of them jumped me but then that is to be expected from bullies. I did manage to take two of them down with a stun gun before falling before their fists and boots but that day I was very sensitive to their feelings - I felt every blow.

In 2005 the sealers attacked and assaulted my crew on the ice, striking them with sealing clubs, destroying cameras and spilling our blood onto the ice. Not one of them was charged despite the entire assault being documented because the Royal Canadian Mounted Police said that we "provoked" them by opposing their killing of seals.

Today I received the following message from a man who described himself as a Newfoundland sealer;

.Hi Mr.

Watson,

I was appalled by your lack of sympathy for the loss of the human lives last week as those sealers lost everything when they drowned in those frigid waters!!

Environmentalists like you make me sick!! Your total lack of respect for human life and your overly protective attitude towards animals is indicative of how extremists like you want to control things. I am a well educated man from Newfoundland currently living in Atlantic Canada and I support the seal hunt, I support the seal fur trade!! There is no greater pleasure than clubbing a baby seal and feeling that skull collapsing and watching them trying to crawl away and then smacking the little ****s again. It ideally should be accomplished in one blow but sometimes it takes two or even three!! Hey all the little bastards do is eat fish and defecate so we are getting rid of animals that do more to destroy ecosystems of fish than are actually contributing to more stable ecosystems. Besides seal meat tastes great and the fur is warm.

Baby seal meat is exceptionally good!!

You’re no better than the animals you protect and I for one will never support any organization which you are affiliated with.

Good day to you "Mr." Watson

Gene Kelly [gene256@hotmail.com]

I especially like the compliment that he gave me with the last line. That is the entire point. We are no better than the animals and their lives do count and I have no apologies for saying that the slaughter of 325,000 seals is a greater tragedy than the deaths of four seal killers. I did not say that their death was not a tragedy. Of course it is and the government of Canada should answer for it but it must be remembered that the 325,000 seal pups are innocent sentient beings minding their own business, helpless on the ice, new to the world, viciously assaulted, clubbed, shot, skinned alive in some cases, kicked and slashed.

The men who died chose to be out on the ice in inferior vessels. They made the choice to be sadistic killers.

Was I being insensitive to the families of the men with that statement? Possibly so, but then I have seen a mother seal grieving for days over the skinned frozen carcass of her pup. I have seen mother seals attempt to nurse their dead baby and none of these images have caused the sealers to feel any pity or remorse.

I have been accused of not being sensitive to the way of life of fishing families yet I was raised in an East coast Canadian fishing village myself and as a child I bore witness to the brutality of fishermen killing seals, shooting at dolphins and whales, torturing sea birds and tossing garbage and oil into the sea. I don’t respect commercial fishermen in general because I have seen first hand what they have done and I have witnessed their incredible arrogance in believing they have the right to do whatever they wish, whenever they wish to any creature they wish.

Yes I am sure there are a few exceptions but generally commercial fishermen are an ecological menace. The oceans of the world have been systematically devastated over the last few generations and both life and diversity have been greatly diminished. We are now fighting last stands against poachers in marine reserves, national parks, international sanctuaries and World Heritage sites. And we are losing – the onslaught of humanity with such vast numbers, such voracious appetites, such efficient technology and such vicious ruthlessness coupled with overall human apathy is destroying the very planet upon which we live. So it is hard for me to be "sensitive" to the feelings of fishermen because four of them died while raping the sea.

We merely report on what we see and during the last week we have seen and video-taped a seal pup being skinned alive. We have seen seal pups thrashing about in agony on the ice as their blood is splattered across the floes with every convulsion of their young bodies. We have seen a seal pup trying to escape its killer with an eyeball dangling from its socket, trailing a stream of blood, searching desperately for protection or a place to run to. Unable to swim, unable to escape, unable to defend itself – this is the very definition of helplessness.

There are those who are appalled at any comparison between human lives and the lives of other animals. There are even a few ignorant people who deny that humans are also animals. There are those who feel that humans are divine, special, superior, the only animals with emotions, souls, capable of thought and reasoning. They are wrong.

During the years that I have traveled to the ice floes I have noticed that all of these baby seals have different personalities. They display curiosity, they express fear, some are docile and others very animated. They are individual sentient beings and their lives are as sacred, as meaningful and as important as ours.

We forget that without diversity we could not survive. We ignore the fact that our voracious appetites have cut a swath of death and destruction throughout the oceans from which they will never recover. Every commercial fishery is in a state of collapse, more marine mammals are going extinct and will go extinct in our generation than we have lost since the Jurassic some sixty-five million years ago.

A report said today that I should issue an apology to the sealers for equating their lives with those of the seals.

I will not.

I said that the loss of the four sealers from the Magdalen Islands is a tragedy and it is, a tragedy caused by the government of Canada – not us.

But I insist that the cruel and remorseless on-going slaughter of 325,000seals is a greater tragedy.

This is not a seal hunt. There is no stalking, no outwitting of the prey, no danger from the animal, no challenge in shooting and clubbing seal pups that can’t escape or swim. This is a cold merciless slaughter that has no place in the civilized world.

I posted this to point out the mind set of Watson! He lives in a fairyland of numbers along with his other nut ball friends! He puts himself above everyone else judging life based on his outlook! NOT A CLUE of reality!

 

[creamofwheat]

I have just read this entire thread. It took a while. Heh.

I am not sure if I have anything really new to contribute, but here is my opinion on the matter nonetheless.

I do not support the seal hunt in any way, shape or form. I am a Canadian, living on the West Coast of British Columbia. I am a female. I am a university graduate in my early twenties. Everybody in my age group that I have talked to about this matter so far is also against the seal hunt. I have yet to personally meet someone who supports it.

I do not wear any products made from animals. I do not eat cows. I do not eat pigs. That is an industry I cannot support. I also do not eat rabbits, deer, lobster, crab, shrimp. I do eat some salmon on occasion. I also eat eggs, but free-range ones.

That being said, I think the seal hunt is sickening, but no more sickening than what is done to the animals that are used for food. Both things make me feel close to throwing up if I think about them too hard. And I am appalled that my own government allows the seal hunt to happen every year when there is so much opposition to it from our country's own citizens. And correct me if I am wrong (because I could be...I don't remember where I got this information) but I believe the Canadian government even raised the seal quota this year by an extra 5,000 seals. And that, in my opinion, is wrong. The whole thing is wrong.

So there's an overpopulation of seals? Yeah, it happens. But Mother Nature usually has a way of sorting things out for herself, if only man can leave well enough alone. We are the ones that are over-fishing and depleting our resources. We are the ones that are cutting down too many trees. We are the ones that insist on having our houses air conditioned and we are the ones that insist on driving cars. We ourselves are responsible for the depletion of cod...not the seals. Had we not overfished, there would be plenty cod for both seals and human. (Though I admit, I do NOT know the specifics of what happened with the cod industry).

But I've gone a bit off of what I was originally going to say, which was, basically, that I do not support the seal hunt, whatsoever. Of course, that is my opinion, and other people are entitled to their opinions as well. But as a young Canadian citizen, personally, I am appalled that this can happen in my own country.

 

[Zingtea]

Here's the picture of 4 fathers, sons, friends, that lost their life and that some of you were making fun of. I dont mind any opinion on any subject, it's everyone's right. But some things I just cannot accept.
Eric

It's interesting how you act serious about the deaths of 4 people while still displaying that signature of yours portraying the killing of over 300,000 harp seals as a joke. Things like that keep me from taking you seriously.

 

[wardric]

It's interesting how you act serious about the deaths of 4 people while still displaying that signature of yours portraying the killing of over 300,000 harp seals as a joke. Things like that keep me from taking you seriously.

comparing the death of 4 human beings to hunting sustainable animals is where YOU lose all credibility to me.

post # 200 woohoo :balloon: