The Buddy system and separation problems

[detroit diver]

Originally posted by Paulb2
Hi

Does anyone have a good understanding of the advantages and disadvantages for diving in a threesome :band: that they make explicit to a novice?


Thanks

Paul
-------------------------
Learning all the time
:band2:

We dive threesomes all the time. I am the novice in the group, so I am kept between the other guys (or gals). When we dive foursomes and are following a line, I am the 3rd person in line, being between two more experienced divers.

A couple of weeks ago while we were diving foursomes, one of the more experienced guys had a light failure. He went to his backup and we switched positions with him in the "middle". That way, I could keep watch on him, and the other team members could see my light signals.

Sometimes you have to adjust on the fly.

 

[Paulb2]

Hi

Is it possible that a buddy is in a better position to see any hazardous situations that his/her buddy may get into? For example might they be first to spot fins getting tangled, dangerous fish swimming behind him/her, alternate air source dragging along the ground etc. Anyone got first hand experience of this happening?

Thanks

Paul
-------------------------
Learning all the time

 

[detroit diver]

Originally posted by Paulb2
Hi

Is it possible that a buddy is in a better position to see any hazardous situations that his/her buddy may get into? For example might they be first to spot fins getting tangled, dangerous fish swimming behind him/her, alternate air source dragging along the ground etc. Anyone got first hand experience of this happening?

Thanks

Paul
-------------------------
Learning all the time

Paul,

Firstly, the equipment issues are taken care of during the bubble check at 15 or 20 feet. It's assumed that you know how to get into your equipment, so we do our checks under the water to check for leaks, etc. Of course, we all look at our diving partners stuff while getting in also. We don't have any dragging alternate air sources <G>. It's always around our neck with a bungee. And SPG are clipped off to a ring on our left hip.

As for spotting potentially hazardous situations, 4 eyes are better than 2. And two brains are better than one. I swam under a line one day and got my reg caught up in the line. I could not get myself undone (short of cutting the line), but I signaled my buddy with a light flash and he was right there to assist. He's already seen it and was coming to help before I needed to tell him. That's why we practice together and dive together.

It's the whole arguement for not diving solo. But I don't want to open up that one here.....

Dive safe,

Jack

 

[Paulb2]

Originally posted by detroit diver



It's the whole arguement for not diving solo. But I don't want to open up that one here.....

Dive safe,

Jack

Hi Jack

Please feel free to express your feelings in regards to solo diving, after all, it seems to be very relevant to a discussion concerning the buddy system. Anything that sheds new light on the subject is always interesting.

Your might be interested in reading my recent post at the end of page eight:

‘To buddy or not to buddy? – That is the question’

Happy diving

Paul
:doctor:
--------------------------
Learning all the time

 

[divedude]

Originally posted by Paulb2


Please feel free to express your feelings in regards to solo diving, after all, it seems to be very relevant to a discussion concerning the buddy system. Anything that sheds new light on the subject is always interesting.

Hi All
I'm new to this board but would like to put my .02$ in.
I dive solo on about 50% of my dives, but then nobody said I was smart.
But I would not allow any one on my charter to do so and think 95% of divers should not dive solo. After working in the dive industry for over 10 years I have only met a handfull of divers that I would consider confident in allowing solo dives here. All of them have had 500 or more dives in just about every situation.
This may be different in "down south" diving were 40 feet on a reef in 80 degree water with 100'vis and no over head, I have no problem with solo diving there.
But up in the GWN most of our diving is 85 - 130 feet in 35-40 degree water and 20' vis on shipwrecks no place for someone with 50 dives and a brand new "solo cert." to jump in.

 

[detroit diver]

Paul,

In a word, I think that solo diving is just Bullsh*t. It's not necessary, and it's not worth it. If you look at many of the diving deaths and read the fine details, it becomes quite evident that a competent buddy could have prevented many of these unfortunate occurences.

Maybe it's a macho thing, but my life and my family are just not worth diving solo.

I just got back from diving in Florida-the Keys and West Palm beach. With the exception of one dive buddy that I had, MOST people were diving solo but didn't realize it (or maybe they did, and didn't care). And this BS rule to get back on the boat with 500 psi-just think about this-You're about to ascend with your buddy from 85 ft and maxed out your NDL and you show 700 psi and he runs out of air. Now you're air sharing 700 psi (thats 350 per person if you can't do the math) and have an ascent and 3 minute safety stop. Guess what? You don't have enough air for both of you, especially if he (she) is sucking air and panic'd.

I'm on another rant now, and off topic from solo diving. There were so many things that bothered me on this trip. Sorry for the tangent.

 

[Ber Rabbit]

I realize you're ranting but wonder what you would propose instead of the "BS 500psi rule." That "rule" is the absolute minimum air pressure you should be ON BOARD the boat with. Each dive calls for air management and that should be worked out with your buddy before the dive. If my buddy gets underwater and suddenly refuses to adhere to the air management plan we've decided on I end the dive early.
Just a small comment on your scenario, if my buddy hits 1,000psi and we aren't in the immediate vicinity of the anchor line or exit point I start checking his air with a regularity that gets annoying to him. If you are at 700psi and your buddy is out of air then you failed at some point in your buddymanship if there is no evidence of equipment malfunction. I realize your illustration was used as an example only and doesn't reflect the way you actually do your dives.
Playing devil's advocate
Ber

 

[Uncle Pug]

Originally posted by Ber Rabbit
I realize you're ranting but wonder what you would propose instead of the "BS 500psi rule." That "rule" is the absolute minimum air pressure you should be ON BOARD the boat with. Each dive calls for air management and that should be worked out with your buddy before the dive. If my buddy gets underwater and suddenly refuses to adhere to the air management plan we've decided on I end the dive early.
Just a small comment on your scenario, if my buddy hits 1,000psi and we aren't in the immediate vicinity of the anchor line or exit point I start checking his air with a regularity that gets annoying to him. If you are at 700psi and your buddy is out of air then you failed at some point in your buddymanship if there is no evidence of equipment malfunction. I realize your illustration was used as an example only and doesn't reflect the way you actually do your dives.
Playing devil's advocate
Ber

Hi Ber,
The principle is *rock bottom* and it is the amount that will get you and your buddy back to the surface (or the first gas switch for deco diving.) You figure this ahead of time in the planning phase and usually we have set RBs for certain depth ranges so it doesn't really require figuring. Next you subtract that from your gas supply... and then your figure you thirds. One third out from the down line and one third to get your back. The other third is for your buddy in worst case scenario. So the third is subtracted from your total gas supply with the rock bottom added back in. This is your *turn pressure*. For example only, rock bottom of 500 psi subtracted from total pressure of 2900 psi leaves me 2400 psi one third of which is 800 psi subtracted from 2900 psi means that we turn the dive and head back to the upline at 2100 psi. Now this is a simplification/generalization... not taking into account depth, different tanks sizes and stuff like that.

 

[Paulb2]

Hi everyone

I have recently read in an article that underwater photographers regularly become separated from their buddy's while focusing on setting up the shot, watching the environment for 'that perfect shot' etc.
Does anyone know if this is true or do you have a story of a similar event? Does anyone know if underwater photography is popular among holiday makers or experienced divers?

Thanks

Paul

 

[Ber Rabbit]

That was a very eloquent description That's what we do when we dive, I just never had a name or formula for it. Since most of the diving we get to do is in the quarry we basically plan to do a loop and be back in sight of the exit by 1,000psi and at the 15 foot stop by no less than 700psi. When we dive any other situation we always calculate a "turn" pressure which can change depending on how familiar we are with the area and whether there is a current running, etc. We did a blue water safety stop in a mild current at 1,000psi one day because we managed to miss the mooring line on the reef. That was one day I was glad we had our 1,000psi policy because we decided to swim in place above a coral head for the whole stop rather than get carried away by the current. But it's still the "500psi rule" because you're stepping out of the water with no less than 500psi.
Ber