That old Pattaya question again...

[limbo]

Sorry Geoff,

She makes a general statement and doesn't mention anybody by name.

There are quite a few people offering 'zero to hero' packages, so who is she referring to than?

Once more, IMHO she's just making a general statement and all those DC's offering the 'zero to hero' packages are hardly competitors for Ringo's DC. Those DC's are covering a different market segment than Ringo's DC.

She's not being called out at all, just a general statement.

 

[Kim]

You need to refer to a competitor by name for it to be obvious?

Please, join us in the real world limbo.

OK Geoff....real world....

Most of this thread you've been posting that what Aquanauts did was Ok and "innocent"! Now you're posting that a comment like "zero to hero" is specifically aimed at them?

You're kidding me right?

It's OK for someone to describe people as "dive snobs down south".......name names that OF COURSE aren't meant to show the owners in a bad light!!!!!!! But it's NOT OK to say "zeros to heros" as a matter of training principle (i.e. really fast, less dives than many beginners, INSTRUCTORS!!!!!) ...because that seems to be the Aquanauts game plan?

Can you say double standard?

 

[CHDiver]

Geoff,

How come Ringo is called out?????

She is not referring to a competitor now, is she?
This is just a general statement, without mentioning any names of competitors or her own DC at all.

Please explain yourself.

No; she isn't referring to one competiror; she is referring to all IDC and CDC Centers in Thailand. They must be rubish. That was my interpretation. That was the reason I didn't like the statement. A guy who has to spend 65000 Baht can go up to Rescue Diver maybe, but not more. There was no need to bash zero to hero; because he can not go there for that amount of money; not with a good dive shop. I know that some dive shops down south have a problem with Aquanauts; as they (Aquanauts) where a little bit offensive; but I think they (Aquanauts) learnd a lesson or two. I just think that Phuket should stay where they are and Pattaya too. There is no reason to bash each other. If the OP don't like it; but he has to stay in Pattaya; maybe Mermaids is the way he goes?

It would be nice if Phuket DC stay where they are and the Pattaya DC do the same. I am sure that if a Pattaya DC has something to say; they can do it without any help of a DC from Phuket. I know DC's in Pattaya are thougth enough.

 

[Ringo]

Wow - some of you really do seem to read between the lines. Make of it what you want - I really dont mind. You can insert/imagine whatever you want....it is up to you.

As for "zero to hero" I have met many people who have been rushed through the courses and unfortunately not been trained properly. For example I met a Swedish couple who did their DM course together in a classroom within 7 days in Sweden and had never been on a boat!!! Subsequently their first experience working for a DC in Thailand (as DMs on a daytrip boat) got 1 of their customers seriously bent. After he was put on oxygen they then allowed him to go in the water for the third dive of the day because he reckoned he was feeling better!! The consequences were enormous. This IMO is a typical example of "zero to hero".

Otherwise my point is nobody should feel the right to slag off other competitors on public forums. How would you feel if it was your business? Even worse what if the info published was incorrect about your business?

 

[CHDiver]

That is a very interesting example; but it has nothing to do with a zero to hero program in my understanding. It's just a simple DM Course you can do with any Diveshop. I am sure it was not a PADI DM Course, as you can't do this just in a Classroom; you know that as you run or work in a Dive Center under the PADI Flag.

The mentioned DC's in Pattaya are PADI Dive Centers too. They offer Internships; beside of other Divecourses. If somebody is starting without any Divingqualification he needs a little bit more than 6 Month to be Instructor, for Divemaster it's around 3 months. Plenty of time to gain experience. A DM will make more then 100 Dives; a Instructor over 200. The DM Course itself goes over 2 weeks, including Pool and Open Water Dives. As Intern he has to assist on Courses too, just have a look at your Instructor Manual.

 

[Ringo]

Yes, I did forget to mention that their DM course was part of their package from OW to DM through the same center. And yes, I do call this a zero to hero package. IMO they were cheated on their diver education and when I met them they did not even have the required 60 logged dives (which also BTW IMO is still very inexperienced)!!

The certifying agency I will not name here.

 

[Arizona]

Let the diver beware! It seems there are standards and not everybody lives up to them. I look at the zero to hero packages as being good in some instances. We all know people have different learning styles. Those that are passive and do not seek to build knowledge outside of the internship or on their own will not do as well IMO. In fact, they will most likely not do well in any sort of instructor training as good instructors (or teachers) IMO are motivated to be life long learners. I think it takes a combination of things to produce good results. I am sure OWSI and Course Directors alike have seen people pass, but realize not all are going to be ideal divers/instructors. This may not be any fault of the zero to hero programs, but rather the inherent differences amongst divers and people in general regardless of training. Just because you want to be good at something, does not guarantee you will be. There are other things outside of the zero to hero program to consider. This is why it works well for some IMO.

So how do we define zero to hero? Is it time it takes you to go from OW to OWSI? I think we can all agree it is usually a package deal getting you from almost no training to becoming an instructor.

I wonder how many zero to hero graduates are working successfully as instructors or higher? Are there higher rates of accidents associated with them? Do training organizations keep data showing things like this? I bet most are successful. Are there any zero to hero graduates willing to comment? Do you feel your training prepared you well for your new career?

Arizona

 

[stevenl]

There is of course a major difference between bashing Aquanauts and bashing zero to hero programs.

Personally I don't believe in the zero to hero programs, others do, be it out of conviction or because it is a way to make a living. But students can do what they want, and book what they perceive as good value for money.

The way to promote the programs is a different story of course, and if it is done by bashing competition, I don't think it is a good way. The problem with all these things is, it is not always easy to give honest and clear information without crossing the line. I see also no point in talking in a negative way about other DC's in other areas. The quality of the diving in another area can be a different story

 

[Arizona]

I am not out to bash anyone, but is Aquanauts a zero to hero program? I would say yes. Can any graduates comment on how well they were prepared from any of these types of programs? This type of info would be really helpful to many thinking of following a similar path.

 

[stevenl]

but is Aquanauts a zero to hero program?

I would say yes.

Can any graduates comment on how well they were prepared from any of these types of programs?

Morte difficult question. Can an open water student comment on the quality of the course? Of course he can, but how valuable is that information?

This type of info would be really helpful to many thinking of following a similar path.

Agree, but the information can be presented in a different way.