Teen drowns at North Texas scuba park

[MikeFerrara]

Another thing that hasn't yet caught on in rec diving is underwater wireless communications. In low-viz, if you lost your buddy, you could instantaneously push-to-talk, and let them know you're okay.

There are several problems with wireless coms. First, for the most part, they require the use of a full face mask and that introduces a whole new set of equipment configuration and skill issues.

Second, being able to talk to someone doesn't tell you where they are and if they are in trouble they aren't going to do a lot of conversing. Also most wireless coms a ultrasonic and won't transmit through obstructions. Turbidity in the water of even thermoclines can be a problem.

Hard wire coms with surface support/control of the dive (as done in commercial diving) is a different matter but, IME, untrasonic coms in recreational diving is just an expensive toy that doesn't contribute significantly to safety.

 

[texarkandy]

As a Dad diving with my daughter, this incident naturally caught my attention - but I've heard nothing more about it since -

So did it ever come out just what happened here? Did he (as speculated) lose his weights, accidentally ascend, and she panicked? - or was it something else?

Were they just "practicing" OOA (seems she would still have had air avail in that case) - or was she actually OOA (perhaps due to having had an uncontrolled free-flow or something?)

 

[TxHockeyGuy]

I've heard from several reliable sources that the father was attempting to do an old school buddy breathing drill with her daughter, not an octo air share. The same sources have also confirmed there was indeed an initial delay in getting divers out to assist as those in the immediate area also believed the original calls for help were a rescue class. This is a direct contradiction of what I had earlier been told but I now know from people who were there and in the area the delay did actually happen. Those sources have not told me that a weight belt was lost. I have not been able to get any confirmation on that from what I would consider a reliable source although I have heard several people say it happened. On a side note rescue classes are now only allowed to be held in one area of the park which is around a bend and is not visible from the majority of the park. This restriction forced my rescue class to use a different park last weekend as that area of the park was already in use. So that restriction is definitely being adhered to.

Please do not ask for my sources, I will not be giving that information out.

 

[fisherdvm]

I kinda wonder what kind of drill he did with his daughter. My son and I did buddy breathing drill, but we just pretended in a 4 ft pool and simply held the reg up near the other persons mouth, and not really sharing. It was simply an exercise to make him aware of the skill. I think it is a dangerous thing to do unless you practiced buoyancy control first and get the rhythm down perfectly.

 

[texarkandy]

So if this was a buddy-breathing "drill" seems to me she still would have had air, a reg, and an octo, no?

I suppose what I'm getting at is whether the fact that the drill involved "buddy-breathing" was the cause of the tragedy - could have been a more standard OOA drill using octo and had the same result?

If the accident involved a skill practice session gone bad by a loss of bouyancy control, a panic attack and subsequent failure to retrieve her own reg or octo, could it not have just as well happened on an "octo" drill as a "buddy-breathing" drill?

I don't really "get" why so much of this incident has been laid at the feet of "buddy breathing"

This concerns me because I have practiced buddy-breathing in the pool w/my JOW (just to give her exposure to the skill - not to give her any impression it's preferred over using an octo).

I've since been told I shouldn't do this and been given the impression it's not only "dangerous" to practice, but also implied it may be "dangerous" to give her the knowledge of the skill.

(I'm further curious as to whether the equip was their own, their dive shop's, or CSSP's - but I don't guess I'll find that one out)

 

[DandyDon]

On a side note rescue classes are now only allowed to be held in one area of the park which is around a bend and is not visible from the majority of the park. This restriction forced my rescue class to use a different park last weekend as that area of the park was already in use. So that restriction is definitely being adhered to.

The park has a good reputation, and I do hope they'll reconsider that. If they stick to that, and someone distressed honestly yells for help from that area, they're more likely to be ignored.

I don't care if anyone disagrees, if any Inst teaches this differently, etc, but if there is a plea for help, then put all reasonable forces into action, decide later if it was a drill. If it was a drill with the Help-word rather than Hamburger, only later have words with the Inst on duty. This should be very clear from the start of any drill.

When I was very new, I saw a class at Santa Rosa NM, and the "victim" hollered for help. I felt inadequate at the time, and hopped others there were more capable of helping. I was bothered at the lack of reaction, then irritated that it was a class with the Help-word, as I knew better than that even then.

I also got mildly irritated with a nice Texas lady in Roatan. She'd come to the surface and give a friendly Texas wave. Every time, I'd hold up the Large OK and yell to ask if she was ok? She was. The wave is not a frienly gesture in the water. This is a potentially deadly sport, and we need to observe a few standards obviously.

 

[TxHockeyGuy]

So if this was a buddy-breathing "drill" seems to me she still would have had air, a reg, and an octo, no?

I suppose what I'm getting at is whether the fact that the drill involved "buddy-breathing" was the cause of the tragedy - could have been a more standard OOA drill using octo and had the same result?

If the accident involved a skill practice session gone bad by a loss of bouyancy control, a panic attack and subsequent failure to retrieve her own reg or octo, could it not have just as well happened on an "octo" drill as a "buddy-breathing" drill?

I don't really "get" why so much of this incident has been laid at the feet of "buddy breathing"

This concerns me because I have practiced buddy-breathing in the pool w/my JOW (just to give her exposure to the skill - not to give her any impression it's preferred over using an octo).

I've since been told I shouldn't do this and been given the impression it's not only "dangerous" to practice, but also implied it may be "dangerous" to give her the knowledge of the skill.

(I'm further curious as to whether the equip was their own, their dive shop's, or CSSP's - but I don't guess I'll find that one out)

Her equipment was reported to be fully functional so she should have had a working reg available to her. It was widely reported that panic was involved and that certainly makes sense as she did have a working reg. As far as the possibility of the same problem occuring during an octo air share is concerned, I guess anything is possible but an octo air share drill is much easier to perform than a buddy breathing drill.

The reason why so many are blaming this accident on the buddy breathing is because it is widely held that this is a dangerous method of air sharing for two people who are not experienced in doing it. Of course in any accident there is a chain of events that occur, breaking any one of those could have prevented this however it certainly appears that the buddy breathing was the start of the unfortunate chain of events in this accident.

As far as who's equipment was in use, this is pure speculation but more than likely it was from the dive shop where she was taking her OW classes she had just completed. That is typically what most students will have on their OW checkout weekend. That again however, is pure speculation.

 

[TxHockeyGuy]

The park has a good reputation, and I do hope they'll reconsider that. If they stick to that, and someone distressed honestly yells for help from that area, they're more likely to be ignored.

I don't care if anyone disagrees, if any Inst teaches this differently, etc, but if there is a plea for help, then put all reasonable forces into action, decide later if it was a drill. If it was a drill with the Help-word rather than Hamburger, only later have words with the Inst on duty. This should be very clear from the start of any drill.

When I was very new, I saw a class at Santa Rosa NM, and the "victim" hollered for help. I felt inadequate at the time, and hopped others there were more capable of helping. I was bothered at the lack of reaction, then irritated that it was a class with the Help-word, as I knew better than that even then.

I also got mildly irritated with a nice Texas lady in Roatan. She'd come to the surface and give a friendly Texas wave. Every time, I'd hold up the Large OK and yell to ask if she was ok? She was. The wave is not a frienly gesture in the water. This is a potentially deadly sport, and we need to observe a few standards obviously.

I personally like the idea of holding rescue classes in only the one area of the park. There are rescue classes going on over there constantly because it's the best place to have them for multiple reasons. Also, since there are rescue classes going on over there constantly anyone who does yell for help would probably get an immediate response. The instructors from ScubaToys are notorious for enlisting the aid of other divers and instructors the students are not familiar with during their rescue classes. They do this on purpose to make sure we're really paying attention. At the very least I will know if I see anything happening in any other part of the park I don't need to ask myself if it is a rescue class or not. I will immediately attempt to assist and get a call off to 911. If it turns out they were holding a drill in the wrong part of the park I'll let them explain to the authorities why they were calling for help when none was needed.

On another note. I have been told that apparently PADI requires that the actual phrase call for 911 and help be utilized during their rescue classes. Can anyone confirm this? I certainly see plenty of PADI rescue classes out there and they are not doing that. So if that is the requirement from PADI and they aren't yelling for help apparently they are breaking PADI standards, which in this case I fully support. Does anyone know?

 

[Jim Lapenta]

This is a new requirement and is based on the idea that if you ingrain calling for pizza, burgers, etc. it may actually happen that a new rescue diver will have this training kick in when it is an emergency and actually call for pizza when they should be calling for help. I actually can see the logic in this. Many times in an emergency such a a heart attack people will respond in EXACTLY the way they were trained. Numerous times people have started to correctly perform CPR on a victim and said later I did not think, It just happened and my training kicked in. It was more instinct than anything. So by training someone to yell anything other than help or call 911 it could conceivably delay getting help to the victim. After all the crap they've been doing with their so-called e-learning and some of the other stuff they do I believe they actually got it right on this. But I will stress that in an area frequently used for training it's a damn good idea to add this is not a drill. That's from personal experience.

 

[DandyDon]

At the very least I will know if I see anything happening in any other part of the park I don't need to ask myself if it is a rescue class or not. I will immediately attempt to assist and get a call off to 911. If it turns out they were holding a drill in the wrong part of the park I'll let them explain to the authorities why they were calling for help when none was needed.

On another note. I have been told that apparently PADI requires that the actual phrase call for 911 and help be utilized during their rescue classes. Can anyone confirm this? I certainly see plenty of PADI rescue classes out there and they are not doing that. So if that is the requirement from PADI and they aren't yelling for help apparently they are breaking PADI standards, which in this case I fully support. Does anyone know?

If I see or hear anyone hollar for help anywhere, I'm going to do what I can ASAP, ask questions later. Even Rescue students get into trouble while in class.

[-]No Padi does not require "phrase call for 911." We used Hamburger to simulate the Help-word and Call for Pizza! to simulate that.[/-] They do?! Damn.

I hear call 911, I am - they'd better add "this is a drill" loud and clear, or they'll have an ambulance!