tech plate or just back inflate?

[wstein]

And their marketing strategy on the website is first rate!

Yes it is, I was almost going to go ahead and order my a BP and harness from them.

Paul

 

[matt_unique]

So you are arguing that in fact bp/w is The Answer (note the capitalization) for everybody? That every diver would be happier with a bp/w over a back-inflate?

I asked you (or anyone else who feels the way you do) an honest question. I gave you my specific observations and experience with a bp/w compared to a bc having owned and used both. I was similarly stubborn about the advice until I personally researched the costs, flexibility, upgrade ability, simplicity, etc. of the bp/w compared to a bc.

If you have a BC, you don't need to buy a bp/w unless you have a change in gear storage/doubles needs. By gear storage I mean the need to bring more gear with you on a dive. You can add d-rings and such to a harness on a bp/wing setup which cannot be done on a BC. If you are trying to decide what to buy out of the gate, get a bp/w.

--Matt

 

[matt_unique]

Wow, thnx for all the msgs, they reminded of another problem I might have to deal with: If I'm teaching a class, wouldn't it be kinda bad to have a bp/wing consider all the students would have a hard time dealing with an instructor with a very different buoyancy system from their own?

It's not a different buoyancy system at least as far as your students are concerned. I doubt your students could even tell the difference in fact. There are no exercises they would need to do with you as a buddy that would be different with a BC. Inflator is in the same place and works the same, you can mount your octo in the same triangle if you choose, you can have ditchable weight in pouches similar to that of a weight integrated BC, and you can choose to have a harness with quick release buckles. The only difference I can think of is a crotch strap and you can choose not to have it connected when diving with your students.

--Matt

 

[OE2X]

As long as the shop you are teaching for sells that brand of BP/W there shouldn't be an issue. Ask Grateful Diver. He has been down this route and teaches in a BP/W. I know of at least three other instructors out here that do as well.

 

[Soggy]

Just to add to what Matt said, while you *can* choose to configure a BP/Wing in a traditional OW manner, I would suggest that you are training students to dive in the real world with divers using a variety of equipment that they should be familiar with. If you dive with a long hose and bungeed backup, explain it to your students and dive in your normal configuration. They can only benefit from the learning experience.

 

[Humuhumunukunukuapua'a]

Yes, except for the very old, the infirm, or the blatantlly obvious (note the redundancy). And no, its not The Answer: its The Elegant Solution.

Have you always known what is right for everyone, or is it something you discovered you were able to do recently?

The advantage of this approach is that the students are exposed to varying configurations, and get a better understanding that there are choices and trade-offs. I try not to push one method over the other but I do like to explain the differences. I assume that my students are smart enough to take that information and make their own informed choices.

<sarcasm>
Hey hey hey there! It sounds as though you believe different people may desire different features in a rig! That just can't be!
</sarcasm>

Seriously, thanks NWGratefulDiver for one of the more even-keel responses from the BP/W crowd.

As far as evad's response, can't you guys see why that sort of response, coupled with the name "Do It Right" itself, lends an attitude of smug superiority to what you say that a lot of people will always find really...irritating...regardless of the value of your opinions ??

Basically, I just don't understand why some BP/W/DIR folks can't accept that some people really like BCs and find them to be a great dive rig. Why do you have to point out that those people are "wrong" in order for you to feel good about the choices that you have made for yourself?

No flame war desired...it just confuses me, because I don't see any of the old salts who have been diving BCs for 20 years shoving their ideas down anyone's throats.

Gregg

 

[Monkey Knife-fight]

No flame war desired...it just confuses me, because I don't see any of the old salts who have been diving BCs for 20 years shoving their ideas down anyone's throats.

Gregg

Because they'r wrong and afraid to admit it. You heard the man it's the "Elegant Solution". So do bp/w's come standard with an inflated ego or is it extra?

I mean come on. For a group of people obviously happy with their viewpoint bp/w pushers seem very insecure with the reality that there ARE qualities of bp/w that some divers would interpret as drawbacks.

Now bring on the posts that roughly read "Don't listen to him, he just looks at bp/w setups and thinks it looks uncomfortable. It can only be ignorance that prevents people from admitting that bp/w is not just one solution but the correct solution for diving."

 

[Monkey Knife-fight]

Seriously, thanks NWGratefulDiver for one of the more even-keel responses from the BP/W crowd.

This i agree with 100%.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Basically, I just don't understand why some BP/W/DIR folks can't accept that some people really like BCs and find them to be a great dive rig. Why do you have to point out that those people are "wrong" in order for you to feel good about the choices that you have made for yourself?

It's not usually like that Gregg ... sometimes things come across on the Internet in ways they were never meant to.

Over here the DIR and non-DIR divers intermingle pretty freely ... I don't know too many divers (personally) who would not dive with someone because of their gear selections. We're all in it because we love to dive. What matters isn't your gear, but how squared-away you are as a diver ... and even then we'll make accommodation for someone who might need some skills practice but shows an interest in learning and improving.

Two nights ago I hooked up with some friends for a dive ... four of us are DIR-trained, and dress accordingly. The other has a PADI OW cert and wears a SeaQuest jacket BCD and standard reg. It's his choice ... he's been diving for 12 years, has logged over 500 dives, and is a pretty darn good diver. We did a 49 minute dive to 110 fsw, took a few pictures, and came up together. Nobody commented about anybody's gear ... and skills-wise, we're all pretty compatible.

Underwater's where it counts ... and what matters is good buoyancy control, proper gas management, and excellent buddy skills. As far as gear goes, what you wear is far less important than that it fits you properly, you maintain it properly, and you practice using it regularly.

At the end of the day, we're all divers ... in real life most BP/W divers I know are more interested in your skills than your gear when deciding whether or not they want to dive with you. And that's as it should be ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[Mandy3206]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Monkey Knife-fight
So you are arguing that in fact bp/w is The Answer (note the capitalization) for everybody? That every diver would be happier with a bp/w over a back-inflate?



I asked you (or anyone else who feels the way you do) an honest question. I gave you my specific observations and experience with a bp/w compared to a bc having owned and used both. I was similarly stubborn about the advice until I personally researched the costs, flexibility, upgrade ability, simplicity, etc. of the bp/w compared to a bc.

If you have a BC, you don't need to buy a bp/w unless you have a change in gear storage/doubles needs. By gear storage I mean the need to bring more gear with you on a dive. You can add d-rings and such to a harness on a bp/wing setup which cannot be done on a BC. If you are trying to decide what to buy out of the gate, get a bp/w.

--Matt

Matt, you asked an honest question and MKF chose to flame back and no question was answered, this leads me to believe that he ain't got and answer or he doesn't know any drawbacks for the BP/W setup, maybe he has never tried one, who knows.
I would definetely would like to hear about those drawbacks, just curious.....

MKF, I'm curious if you've ever tried a BP/W setup, and if so what are your personal comments on it.

As I said before, BP/W isn't for everyone and definetely the great majority of divers use BCDs, but it doesn't means that it's best overall, I don't criticize anyone using a BCD, it's their choice, but every dive trip that I go and other divers see my BP/W, they ask about it and realize that they didn't knew about that system and allways want to learn about it, and if it's confy.

Still would like to hear about your complains about the system.