Tech diving, equipment, awareness and too much too soon

[stuartv]

You need to do a bit more traveling and diving. In the UK, on a hard boat, the skipper is normally a diver (or was in a past life)

So, in summary, you have an expectation that someone on the boat has knowledge and experience with the kind of diving you are diving?

Would you do a tech dive on one of those boats if you knew that the crew were all clueless about diving and the captain was fresh off getting his captain's license and his OW cert from some resort spot in the Caribbean? Maybe you would, but I would be pretty uncomfortable with that scenario.

 

[rivers]

So, in summary, you have an expectation that someone on the boat has knowledge and experience with the kind of diving you are diving?

Would you do a tech dive on one of those boats if you knew that the crew were all clueless about diving and the captain was fresh off getting his captain's license and his OW cert from some resort spot in the Caribbean? Maybe you would, but I would be pretty uncomfortable with that scenario.

I don't know the crew's history when I get on the boat. And unless I know the skipper, I don't know their history. What I do know, is that they have a licence to operate the boat and that they have O2 as well as other required safety equipment on board and know how to use it. It's a fairly regulated industry in the UK.
My main concerns: Getting us to and from the dive site safely and putting the shot on the wreck. I don't care if the skipper or crew dive. I care that they know how to operate the dive boat.

 

[kensuf]

So, in summary, you have an expectation that someone on the boat has knowledge and experience with the kind of diving you are diving?

Would you do a tech dive on one of those boats if you knew that the crew were all clueless about diving and the captain was fresh off getting his captain's license and his OW cert from some resort spot in the Caribbean? Maybe you would, but I would be pretty uncomfortable with that scenario.

I'd rather have a great captain that doesn't know diddly squat about tech diving than a great tech diver that doesn't know diddly squat about running a boat. But maybe that's just me.

 

[rjack321]

So, you would go out on a recreational dive boat charter with a captain who possibly knows nothing about diving except where the dive site it, and a crew that possibly knows nothing about diving at all?

The point is, any diver going out on a dive boat has or SHOULD have an expectation that someone on the boat, who will remain on the boat, knows something about diving at the level of the diving that is planned, who can do their part to make sure everyone gets home safely. Normally, the captains know this and they have at least one crew member who is a dive professional (at least a DM). So, some people want to passive-aggressively post here as if I'm saying something stupid, but I believe, in reality, most of us that go out and dive off a boat really do have some dependency on a DM, whether we have thought about it or want to admit it. Supporting my earlier point that, if it's a tech charter, I think there should be a DM certified as a DM at the level of diving that is planned.

Sure I have gone the "water taxi" route before, I probably will again.

I tailor MY briefing of what I am doing back to the skipper accordingly. Its a 2-way conversation. I have had skippers give me a briefing and told them I'd like to do something else and they agree (or disagree). Other times I have gone with their way of doing things ala "when in Rome".

Why do deckhands need to be scuba "professionals"? Or hold some card that says "divemaster"? (ps I have one, nobody cares if I have the card - they usually look to me cause I generally know what I'm doing...)

 

[ScubaInChicago]

Sure I have gone the "water taxi" route before, I probably will again.

I tailor MY briefing of what I am doing back to the skipper accordingly. Its a 2-way conversation. I have had skippers give me a briefing and told them I'd like to do something else and they agree (or disagree). Other times I have gone with their way of doing things ala "when in Rome".

Why do deckhands need to be scuba "professionals"? Or hold some card that says "divemaster"? (ps I have one, nobody cares if I have the card - they usually look to me cause I generally know what I'm doing...)

That's because they respect the card...without it you would be an arrogant arse

 

[KenGordon]

The Dive MANAGER is an explicit role in BSAC diving. He or she is responsible for the diving on a particular trip and is the main point of contact with the skipper if not using a club boat. For bigger trips they may also organise accommodation, transport etc. They will be expected to have at least figured out the logistics if not actually booked things. Classic issues such as where to get fills on a bank holiday weekend belong with the dive manager. Other stuff like ensuring the diving is suitable for the experience of the divers, that safe practices are vaguely adhered to and logging what happened are also their responsibility. Considerable delegation happens.

It is entirely possible, common, and trained for that a dive manager who doesn't dive trimix or a rebreather will manage divers who are diving trimix or a rebreather.

There is usually an assumption that boat crew know how to boil a kettle. Actually making coffee is pushing expect ions, at least drinkable coffee.

 

[Diving Dubai]

The Dive MANAGER is an explicit role in BSAC diving.

@stuartv

I can attest to Ken's post above, as I'm a qualified Dive Manager within BSAC, my qual however is limited currently to sites and areas known by the club not expeditions to areas not dived by the club.

Just last weekend on the boat I was managing, I had 20 divers for 2 days. A high proportion had greater qualifications and experience than myself. The were instructors for instance, had been diving the area for quite a few years, some were Tech instructors some were on Rebreathers.

It's not my job to micro manage their dive plan and gas mix. My job is to herd everyone to the sites, get them down and get make sure they come up again. Making sure everyone has enjoyable dives while keeping to a rough schedule. Everyone gets a say in the sites as conditions usually dictate you have to make a judgement when you get there. But the final decision rests with me and the skipper base on the conditions and the divers experience.

In the case or something going pear shaped then I'm the person responsible for organising the actions and response. I may delegate (and have) actions to other people better suited. For instance I may be First aid and CPR trained, but when I have a medical professional on the boat then I hand over the actions to them etc.

My biggest responsibility is making sure there is enough bacon on board for breakfast

The BSAC Dive Leader Qual is kinda what you seem to be looking for, whether there is anywhere in the US you could take it is another matter

 

[Centrals]

The BSAC Dive Leader Qual is kinda what you seem to be looking for, whether there is anywhere in the US you could take it is another matter

Who would underwrite the personal liability in that part of the world?

 

[Diving Dubai]

Who would underwrite the personal liability in that part of the world?

BSAC - As a BSAC club obviously we operate under their guidelines and procedures.

 

[Storker]

Who would underwrite the personal liability in that part of the world?

As long as the activity is non-profit, run by unpaid volunteer work, "personal liability" would only come into play if someone is guilty of gross negligence. Everyone participating in club activities are assumed to be competent adults, and they carry the responsibility for their activity themselves. I've never worried about personal liability related to club outings. It probably helps a lot that in my part of the world, medical expenses are covered by the state and the society is a lot less litigious than in... let's say "another part of the world".

What @Diving Dubai describes isn't unique to BSAC, it's also (AFAIK) the way things are done in CMAS-affiliated diving clubs and very close to my own reality.