Tech diving, equipment, awareness and too much too soon

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Sounds like you've got a very specific role in mind for this "professional." I recall you saying it's something required by the club or group you belong to. It isn't really what people (or apparently the agencies) think of as a DM role.

If it were me in this role--whatever we want to call it--I'd write myself a big, fat waiver for the 10 divers to sign.

Maybe. But, when you go out on a recreational charter boat, do you vet the boat and crew and the boat's safety equipment and do a dive safety plan yourself? Or do you assume someone on the boat has done that? If so, who?
 
Maybe. But, when you go out on a recreational charter boat, do you vet the boat and crew and the boat's safety equipment and do a dive safety plan yourself? Or do you assume someone on the boat has done that? If so, who?

I'm not sure what you're getting at. In the US, I assume the boat meets Coast Guard requirements, and I am usually relieved to see a radio and oxygen aboard. Beyond that, I play it by ear. I don't rely on any person to vet the boat and crew for ability to deliver the dive-related services I am expecting. Maybe it's different on a tech charter--I don't know what that entails.
 
I'm not sure what you're getting at. In the US, I assume the boat meets Coast Guard requirements, and I am usually relieved to see a radio and oxygen aboard. Beyond that, I play it by ear. I don't rely on any person to vet the boat and crew for ability to deliver the dive-related services I am expecting. Maybe it's different on a tech charter--I don't know what that entails.

So, you would go out on a recreational dive boat charter with a captain who possibly knows nothing about diving except where the dive site it, and a crew that possibly knows nothing about diving at all?

The point is, any diver going out on a dive boat has or SHOULD have an expectation that someone on the boat, who will remain on the boat, knows something about diving at the level of the diving that is planned, who can do their part to make sure everyone gets home safely. Normally, the captains know this and they have at least one crew member who is a dive professional (at least a DM). So, some people want to passive-aggressively post here as if I'm saying something stupid, but I believe, in reality, most of us that go out and dive off a boat really do have some dependency on a DM, whether we have thought about it or want to admit it. Supporting my earlier point that, if it's a tech charter, I think there should be a DM certified as a DM at the level of diving that is planned.
 
So, you would go out on a recreational dive boat charter with a captain who possibly knows nothing about diving except where the dive site it, and a crew that possibly knows nothing about diving at all?

For me the answer would be no - if I am paying for a charter my expectations are much higher.

But on a private boat - all bets are off and yes I have done so in the past. I am looking to get to the site and I will take care of myself when I get in and out of the boat.
 
So, you would go out on a recreational dive boat charter with a captain who possibly knows nothing about diving except where the dive site it, and a crew that possibly knows nothing about diving at all?

The point is, any diver going out on a dive boat has or SHOULD have an expectation that someone on the boat, who will remain on the boat, knows something about diving at the level of the diving that is planned, who can do their part to make sure everyone gets home safely. Normally, the captains know this and they have at least one crew member who is a dive professional (at least a DM). So, some people want to passive-aggressively post here as if I'm saying something stupid, but I believe, in reality, most of us that go out and dive off a boat really do have some dependency on a DM, whether we have thought about it or want to admit it. Supporting my earlier point that, if it's a tech charter, I think there should be a DM certified as a DM at the level of diving that is planned.

Sure, every boat I have been on has had crew that knows diving and is able to brief divers on the specifics of the site, the boat, and the boat's safety procedures. I paid for them to take me to and from the site and inform me of safety-related information that would otherwise not have been apparent to me. The person who gives the dive briefing is a DM. If my listening to the briefing is "relying" on the DM, then okay, I rely on the DM.
 
So, you would go out on a recreational dive boat charter with a captain who possibly knows nothing about diving except where the dive site it, and a crew that possibly knows nothing about diving at all?

I've been out on those boats, and it doesn't bother me as long as they know to look out for a SMB or me +/-15 minutes of my projected run time. If I don't feel comfortable, I don't dive, and I live another day. Those waivers cover most of the bases in the dive Ops favor, sans neglect.
 
Andy, it was intentional to make a point about having some one else handle all the logistics of a tech dive and has little bearing on guides. :)

Why intentionally make a moot point? Or are you saying these practices do happen in the tech diving community/industry?

(I've never seen anything like that happening.... but nothing surprises me nowadays...)
 
Why intentionally make a moot point? Or are you saying these practices do happen in the tech diving community/industry?

(I've never seen anything like that happening.... but nothing surprises me nowadays...)

I got where Jack was going with his post. The way I followed the thread, it seemed like Stuart was suggesting that a technical DM would probably work as a cat herder and babysitter all at once.
 
So, you would go out on a recreational dive boat charter with a captain who possibly knows nothing about diving except where the dive site it, and a crew that possibly knows nothing about diving at all?

The point is, any diver going out on a dive boat has or SHOULD have an expectation that someone on the boat, who will remain on the boat, knows something about diving at the level of the diving that is planned, who can do their part to make sure everyone gets home safely. Normally, the captains know this and they have at least one crew member who is a dive professional (at least a DM). So, some people want to passive-aggressively post here as if I'm saying something stupid, but I believe, in reality, most of us that go out and dive off a boat really do have some dependency on a DM, whether we have thought about it or want to admit it. Supporting my earlier point that, if it's a tech charter, I think there should be a DM certified as a DM at the level of diving that is planned.

You need to do a bit more traveling and diving. In the UK, on a hard boat, the skipper is normally a diver (or was in a past life), and the crewmember may or may not be a diver, most certainly not a DM. And, they're not getting in the water that day. The skipper and/or crew will shot the wreck, and the first diver(s) in will make sure the shot is secured, and will send up a little plastic buoy once it is to let the skipper know the other teams of divers are good to get in. Once the last team of divers is in, they'll free the shot from the wreck, inflate the lift bag, and the crew will retrieve it.
Before setting off from the dock, the skipper will give a safety briefing and everyone will fill out the emergency contact sheet as well as planned run times. Once the boat is nearing the site, divers will start kitting up, crew will assist with stages if needed, and once the wreck is shotted, the skipper will give a site briefing including where on the wreck the shot is for orientation purposes. Towards the end of the planned runtimes, it's a matter of spot the blobs and then the divers as they surface. Once everyone is back on board, tea and coffee for everyone.
And for the record, recreational trips are run in pretty much the exact same manner.
 
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