Tech Diver with the 5thd-X team

[Adobo]

Yep, that's kind of what I figured.
But you'll see the thread has been moved out of the DIR section. So, at least one other agrees. And heck this should get fun.

Well, it sets a precedent anyway. I never knew if I was DIR or not. I guess that answers the question.

 

[lamont]

is that popcorn that i smell?

 

[JeffG]

But you'll see the thread has been moved out of the DIR section. So, at least one other agrees.

I would like to know which mod did that and for what reason.

And heck this should get fun.

Now that is out of the DIR forum, yep...lets get the popcorn

 

[mweitz]

That isn't accurate at all.

My issue with Joe is that he said he could do my Tech 1 check off, and while AG was still with GUE I asked him to schedule it. He never got back to me and a month or so later AG was let go. Due to Joe's lack of response I wasn't able to get my provisional taken care of locally (at a cost of a couple hundred bucks). Getting an instructor in to do it was difficult since AG didn't turn in my paperwork (according to GUE). When I finally did get a quote for a check off it was $1,700.00. Joe let it (and me) fall through the cracks.

Now, Joe doing Technical classes has nothing to do with GUE, or DIR. That class teaches 25 / 25 which isn't a DIR gas, and Joe was never a Technical instructor with GUE.

AG has publicly stated that he isn't going to pay attention to GUE standards in teaching their classes (see his posts about the SPG) and how he lied to people with regards to the use of 30 / 30 (someone linked to it in this thread I think). It is clear to me that when you really kick the tires and look under the hood that there are a lot of problems over at the 5thD-X side of things.

Mark

You have to understand context.

Mark got a provisional on his Tech 1 from AG and Joe. AG was removed from GUE and Joe did not get his tech 1 instructors qualifications. Mark complained to the two of them about his situation, but because of circumstances they were unable to do anything about it, only GUE could resolve the problem.

He now has has a hard on for anything Joe and AG does.

So this dog fight has nothing to do with DIR...just revenge and spite.

 

[lamont]

is there a huge problem with 25/25 as long as everyone on the team agrees with it? best i can come up with is that if you're deco'ing on 21/35 you'd probably find a 30/30 bottle more useful than a 25/25 one and it clutters up the 120-180 fsw area with more deco gas choices than you need? i'll let you know how much i care about that one when i hit the point where i'm switching to a 21/35 bottle on deco.... any insight from the people who are further along? from where i'm sitting it seems like a useful way to get 10 fsw more MOD while only sacrificing 5 mins of NDL...

 

[JeffG]

is there a huge problem with 25/25 as long as everyone on the team agrees with it? best i can come up with is that if you're deco'ing on 21/35 you'd probably find a 30/30 bottle more useful than a 25/25 one and it clutters up the 120-180 fsw area with more deco gas choices than you need? i'll let you know how much i care about that one when i hit the point where i'm switching to a 21/35 bottle on deco.... any insight from the people who are further along? from where i'm sitting it seems like a useful way to get 10 fsw more MOD while only sacrificing 5 mins of NDL...

Personally, I don't see any real use for 25/25 or 30/30. I would go directly to 21/35.

 

[darkpup]

Personally, I don't see any real use for 25/25 or 30/30. I would go directly to 21/35.

Depends. 25/25 or 30/30 works great as a gas for Wreck Penetrations at 100'. Going with 21/35 for this type of dive would be overkill IMO, and you'd lose the EAD benefit from a higher percentage of O2 in the mix. The Helium for these types of dives is great for keeping your head clear for running the numbers or working with the line in over-head environments.

The problem I have with standard gas mixes is that it has the potential for some to turn off their brains without really thinking through the problem. It's like using default Rock Bottom calculations at the RecTriox or Tech 1 level because it's easier than running the numbers. Anyone that is honest about GUE's standard gasses and the rules behind those standards as taught by GUE, will acknowledge that 30/30 doesn't fit.

At 120' it pushes the PPO2 to 1.38, which is beyond GUE's recommended working PPO2 of 1.2 or less. Anyone can run the numbers and compare them against GUE's rules behind their standard gasses. I'm not saying that 30/30 is a worthless gas, and GUE obviously has reasons for using it as a standard. But if you're using your brain, there's no way that you can say 30/30 meets the PPO2 limits for a working gas at 120' as taught in their RecTriox course.

The only reason it's a standard gas is because JJ says so. If you need JJ to define you as a diver, more power to you.

~ Jason

 

[mweitz]

There isn't a "huge" problem with any gas. It just isn't DIR for all the reasons we have standardized gasses.

I think the real issue is that 30 / 30 is supposed to be used primarily in the 100' range, but people use it as a 120' gas. That isn't correct. You can certainly drop down to 120 or so on it, but at a PPO2 of 1.2 you get 100' and that is what GUE is looking for.

I happen to agree with Jeff though, for most dives in the 120' range , go straight to 21 / 35). I find 30 / 30 a nice gas for dives to 100 - 115 where we do long swims or scooter dives. We also have a local shop that does 30 / 30 fills on doubles for 30 bucks, and 80s for 15 bucks so it sort of makes it a no brainer for 100' dives since it isn't appreciably more expensive then nitrox at some places.

Mark

is there a huge problem with 25/25 as long as everyone on the team agrees with it? best i can come up with is that if you're deco'ing on 21/35 you'd probably find a 30/30 bottle more useful than a 25/25 one and it clutters up the 120-180 fsw area with more deco gas choices than you need? i'll let you know how much i care about that one when i hit the point where i'm switching to a 21/35 bottle on deco.... any insight from the people who are further along? from where i'm sitting it seems like a useful way to get 10 fsw more MOD while only sacrificing 5 mins of NDL...

 

[lamont]

At 120' it pushes the PPO2 to 1.38, which is beyond GUE's recommended working PPO2 of 1.2 or less.

the new MOD GUE is teaching for 30/30 and EAN32 as bottom mix is 100.

 

[OneBrightGator]

Careful there lamont, getting awful close to personal preference.

The whole DIR thing was what caught my attention in the first place, I thought they were talking about a Tech 1 class, but, if they used a non-standard mix then by strict "rule" (whoever makes them) it wasn't a DIR class.