Tech/Cave Gear

[Johanan]

Wow, there are at least three incarnations of the Nomad that were designed by a guy that feels sidemount is being oversold and is an advanced form of cave diving not appropriate for novices.

Oh those anonymous authorities! I could refer to another highly accomplished exploration diver, SM and Cave IT, who participated in designing of another renown SM equipment line. I surmise, he would say that 1) Nomad has a flawed design; 2) backmount is inferior for any type of diving. The problem is, however, that until he has spoken himself, I actually do not know, what he would say in a real conversation and how he would answer to counter-arguments.

But seriously - what are the rational arguments for saying that sidemount is such a monocycle and such an advanced configuration, that it is not appropriate for easier dives? I rather would agree with @DevonDiver that for challenging missions one should choose that gear, which he/she is most proficient with. I haven't been in backmount for years now. All my muscle memory is tuned for SM. I guess, in backmount I would be comfortamble enough during a leisurely reef dive, but what rationale would convince me to choose it - especially for a complicated cave?

 

[kensuf]

Oh those anonymous authorities! I could refer to another highly accomplished exploration diver, SM and Cave IT, who participated in designing of another renown SM equipment line. I surmise, he would say that 1) Nomad has a flawed design; 2) backmount is inferior for any type of diving. The problem is, however, that until he has spoken himself, I actually do not know, what he would say in a real conversation and how he would answer to counter-arguments.

But seriously - what are the rational arguments for saying that sidemount is such a monocycle and such an advanced configuration, that it is not appropriate for easier dives? I rather would agree with @DevonDiver that for challenging missions one should choose that gear, which he/she is most proficient with. I haven't been in backmount for years now. All my muscle memory is tuned for SM. I guess, in backmount I would be comfortamble enough during a leisurely reef dive, but what rationale would convince me to choose it - especially for a complicated cave?

By anonymous if you mean that everyone here in North Florida knows who I'm talking about, and he's the current world record holder for linear distance from air, then yeah he's anonymous. He doesn't spend much time on the internet, but feel free to give him a call at his shop and ask him what he thinks about sidemount.

As for rational arguments against sidemount for beginning tech divers... It comes down to the fact that sidemount is being oversold as the next greatest thing since sliced bread and there have been a slew of people that have jumped onto the sidemount bandwagon without possessing the basic skills themselves. These charlatans are pushing sidemount on impressionable new divers and selling them convoluted contraptions and improperly training them for sidemount diving. These divers show up for more advanced technical training, such as cave diving or advanced nitrox/deco procedures, believing they are proficient in sidemount, but instead of the course they showed up to take, they wind up spending extra time remediating their basic skills.

Here's a video of a course director and sidemount instructor. Guys like this are "training" people in sidemount.


This video and the people trained by guys like this is the heart of the problem. Transitioning to backmount doubles from a single tank is a much easier step for most people, once they've gotten sufficiently experienced with managing doubles, buoyancy, trim, awareness, etc and find they need sidemount, then it's a logical step to make.

Ironically, @DevonDiver wrote a great article that goes to the heart of the problem with sidemount training for beginning divers, Fixing The Sidemount Training Disappointment

 

[Caveeagle]

Wow... is that actually the soundtrack they chose for the video? I could not help thinking this was a spoof video the whole time..

:-/

 

[_Slacker_]

As for rational arguments against sidemount for beginning tech divers... It comes down to the fact that sidemount is being oversold as the next greatest thing since sliced bread and there have been a slew of people that have jumped onto the sidemount bandwagon without possessing the basic skills themselves.

That's you argument? I see that a bit differently and don't think it is a SM specific issue at all.

Replace the word sidemount above with "CCR" or "cave" and we can have the exact same argument today. Are you saying tech diving in general is being over sold? That is different than SM is being oversold. Rewind 20 years ago and you have the exact same complaints about crappy divers and instructors. Back then they were doing BM wrong is the only difference. Crappy training and crappy diving is poor no matter what equipment you are wearing. Perhaps it is your opinion that YOU can fix a poorly developed diver in BM quicker/easier than vs SM, but that is also a different discussion.

 

[Scott]

Once you've mastered balance and stability, riding a unicycle is a good form of transportation for all kinds of terrain.

 

[DevonDiver]

... I see that a bit differently and don't think it is a SM specific issue at all... . Perhaps it is your opinion that YOU can fix a poorly developed diver in BM quicker/easier than vs SM..

The ability to train/remedy a diver in ANY configuration is entirely dependent on the instructors familiarity and expertise with that configuration.

If someone finds it easier to train/remedy in backmount, compared to sidemount, then it's probably indicative of an experience-bias to that particular configuration.

That's quite logical if, indeed, the person has a large disparity in the amount of time they've spent / spend in one configuration compared to the other.

However, people go to all sorts of lengths to deny that logical bias...

 

[Caveeagle]

That's you argument? I see that a bit differently and don't think it is a SM specific issue at all.

Replace the word sidemount above with "CCR" or "cave" and we can have the exact same argument today. Are you saying tech diving in general is being over sold? That is different than SM is being oversold. Rewind 20 years ago and you have the exact same complaints about crappy divers and instructors. Back then they were doing BM wrong is the only difference. Crappy training and crappy diving is poor no matter what equipment you are wearing. Perhaps it is your opinion that YOU can fix a poorly developed diver in BM quicker/easier than vs SM, but that is also a different discussion.

Divers converting to SM or BM-doubles (from BM-Single) is not even a close comparison. ..actually kind of silly.

There is a very high level of standardization with diving BM doubles. Most reg types can be made to work fairly well. Its not as sensitive to body type. I helped a diver recently set up for pair of double LP85s and we got it set within a few minutes and had gauge, primary, secondary, and LP inflator all it virtually the exact same locations the diver was used to. We talked for a few minutes about stability, valve drills, and how to avoid the turtle-flip. This diver got into the water and looked like a champ within a few minutes.

With SM.. There are many variations on configuration. ..it's actually kind of hard to sort out best option. Everybody seems to have a different opinion on what's best and why. valves in, out, up, down.. Rings vs loops etc. What works well for one diver, might not work as well for another. Steel vs Alum tanks really make a big difference. There is significant variation in regs, hose layout and bcs that a new SM diver has to sort out.

I was in the water with a diver a couple months back that was total mess, and had apparently been working at it for a while.

Another point on the "oversold" factor of SM & 'Tech'.

...It's just my opinion, but 'Tech' training is pretty mission oriented, and kind of pricey. I don't see a log of people signing up for AN/Deco training that aren't doing dives where the capability is a good idea.

I would not say the same thing about SM. It's one thing to develop your SM skills in preparation for more advanced dives. But there are people going straight into SM that are not doing cave or wreck penetration. And.. there sure do seem to be a lot of medically motivated SM divers. Has the ADA gotten involved in this??

 

[Johanan]

But there are people going straight into SM

I am one of these people who went straight from Backmount Singles to SM Twins. I was trained by one of the best SM instructors on the planet, a veritable sidemount guru. and got certified in 2013. Since then all my dives have been in sidemount, no difference - open water, wreck or cave. For me all the talks about how inappropriate sidemount configuration is apart from advanced cave dives, is kinda nonsense. Simply get the best, worldwide respected instructor and follow his doctrine regarding the gear, skills etc. That's it.

 

[Caveeagle]

...For me all the talks about how inappropriate sidemount configuration is apart from advanced cave dives, is kinda nonsense.

Just a tad bit of hyperbole there...

Can you use sidemount-doubles to dive a 45' ocean reef dive, or BHB. Sure! ...Of course. It's only inappropriate if you a doing it just for the "coolness" factor and you are not really planning any dives where it offers a significant advantage. And... you have not committed the time (either training or practice) to make sure you know what you are doing.

If you are NOT proficient, then you should be in the pool, or a confined space working it out. If you ARE proficient, then I doubt most people have any complaints.

..Simply get the best, worldwide respected instructor and follow his doctrine regarding the gear, skills etc. That's it.

Good plan. But once again.. there is the: "which "doctrine" should you subscribe to" discussion. And if all the would-be SM divers followed your model, I doubt we would be having this discussion.

Let me be clear.. I am NOT anti SM. (pic in my avatar is me).. I am just pointing out that I have observed a 'bottle' neck of competency with people moving into SM when (all else being equal), they would have been better served to remain in BM.

 

[victorzamora]

Good plan. But once again.. there is the: "which "doctrine" should you subscribe to" discussion.

To be fair, there's a lot of the same in the doubles world. There's the strictly-DIR guys, all-short-hoses, indy-doubles, isolatable manifold vs not, longhose-bungeed-on-your-tanks à la BSAC, extra d-rings, d-rings on your tanks, deluxe vs single-piece harness, tank positioning (I believe GUE teaches a standard positioning of bands) vs tail weights for trim, etc.

As for which "doctrine" you subscribe to in the SM world, the main problems are when people try to crossover from one of the two main styles to the other without sufficient experience or understanding. Those two main styles are Mx/Alu style and FL/Steel style Picking a "doctrine" is, to me, as simple as knowing where the majority of your diving is and/or will-be.

Edit: Removed a Bill Main reference.