Teaching Dive Tables (including Nitrox)

[Valeriy_Kulaha]

I've bad news for you, there are things for which computer are an indispensabletool of mathematicians (and without the confusion you seem to have between maths and arithmetic, mathematicians aren't specifically good at arithmetic in general)

On the main subject:
- knowing how to use tables doesn't help you to understand the underlying phenomenon (it was the case when I learned to dive before DC were common, I don't see why it would be different now)
- having tables that you know how to use doesn't help you in case of a computer issue if you don't have a second source of time and depth, I prefer a second computer as redundancy source of info
- my usual profiles are such that they would mandate far greater deco if done using tables, I wonder how often I'd not have enough gaz with me for that exit path
- if you don't know what are your deco obligations at the time you detect a computer issue to surface safely, you don't pay enough attention to your computer
- in my practice, planning is also done with computers

1. No computer can replace a mathematician. It is only an additional tool and makes the work easier. And it is the mathematician who should set the computer a task, not the plumber.
2. Before studying the tables, it is necessary to study physiology
For example - why you can't hold your breath when ascending or equalize the pressure in the mask. Then about the tables and safe depths.
3.Depth and time control are the basis of safety
The most reliable and safe method is a capillary depth gauge and a mechanical watch. No batteries and a depth gauge without moving parts.
4. I consider a computer as a device that makes diving a little more comfortable. But in no case does it serve as the basis of safety. In this case, you value your life and health at the price of a computer battery.

 

[Valeriy_Kulaha]

I don't know what you are talking about. Are you saying that all divers should be trained for technical diving? How does this make knowing how to use tables necessary?

Stop idolizing technical divers - they are just divers doing a job. They just have better instructions and better supervision of their dives so they don't have to pay huge insurance premiums out of their own pockets.
But any Open Water Diver who took two 10-liter tanks may regret for the rest of his life that he knew nothing about the physiology of diving.
P.S. I want to change my signature - divers are divided into old and brave, instructors and the undertrained

 

[Blackcrusader]

If a computer goes out at depth, you do not die. You call the dive and begin an ascent. I honestly don't understand the rest of your post.

I had a DC die on a dive. I did not need to end the dive as my SPG shows depth time water temp air and time remaining to 50 bar on any point of the dive. I can continue the dive. Just come shallow to increase NDL time if you were not in deco already.

You need to know tables for TDI ANDP as part of the dive training is a simulated loss of DC on a dive.

 

[Blackcrusader]

For example - why you can't hold your breath when ascending or equalize the pressure in the mask. Then about the tables and safe depths.
3.Depth and time control are the basis of safety

Yet divers have died in only a couple meters depth at the beginning of a dive.

 

[boulderjohn]

Stop idolizing technical divers - they are just divers doing a job. They just have better instructions and better supervision of their dives so they don't have to pay huge insurance premiums out of their own pockets.

You are not talking about technical divers here. You are talking about commercial divers. They are two very different things.

But any Open Water Diver who took two 10-liter tanks may regret for the rest of his life that he knew nothing about the physiology of diving.

Nobody has said anything about not teaching the physiology of diving. You keep making up opposing arguments that nobody is making.

The topic of this thread is NDL diving with tables. Teaching dive physiology and teaching dive tables are two different things.

 

[boulderjohn]

You need to know tables for TDI ANDP as part of the dive training is a simulated loss of DC on a dive.

I was a TDI ANDP instructor. You do not need to know NDL dive tables (the topic of this thread) for that.

You need to have a primary plan, and you need to have a backup. Often the backup is a dive plan, usually created through decompression software, kept on a slate.

That is technical diving. This thread is not about technical diving.

 

[Valeriy_Kulaha]

1. We assume that the diver knows how to use the computer.
2. The rules of the USSR are not followed anywhere else I know of. I don't know anyone else who does this, and they all manage to live through their dives.
3. Are you arguing that understanding how to use tables will keep you from getting shot on the surface? How does that help?

1. I'm not sure you know all the capabilities and commands of your smartphone, not to mention the other dozens of models.
And we haven't even talked about deep anesthesia and the interface of your computer with which you make your second dive.
2. Do you think that I am the ghost of a diver from the former USSR?
3. You don't need to remember the tables - you need to have them when you plan a dive.
If without planning, then my rule is - 30 metres for 30 minutes with 3 minutes at 3 metres. I never used decompression computer (expensive!).

 

[Blackcrusader]

I was a TDI ANDP instructor. You do not need to know NDL dive tables (the topic of this thread) for that.

You need to have a primary plan, and you need to have a backup. Often the backup is a dive plan, usually created through decompression software, kept on a slate.

That is technical diving. This thread is not about technical diving.

Yup for Deco dives tables still use. I don't consider deco as being technical diving. Yeah anyway does anyone know what the USSR dive trained is on about? All those poor OW and AOW vacation divers with no DC going on dives with no plans following guides are in serious risk of DCS and dying. We get it.

 

[Blackcrusader]

1. I'm not sure you know all the capabilities and commands of your smartphone, not to mention the other dozens of models.
And we haven't even talked about deep anesthesia and the interface of your computer with which you make your second dive.
2. Do you think that I am the ghost of a diver from the former USSR?
3. You don't need to remember the tables - you need to have them when you plan a dive.
If without planning, then my rule is - 30 metres for 30 minutes with 3 minutes at 3 metres. I never used decompression computer (expensive!).

Nobody really cares if you are a ghost or not. rather meaningless. My plan for NDL dives is dive along happily and let my Perdix do the multilevel NDL times so I can relax on my dives.

If you want to do a 30 minute dive and stay at 30 meters how are you still in NDL? Using nitrox 40% ?

Not me... I will just ascend and continue on with the dive. DC's are very cheap especially second hand ones.

 

[Valeriy_Kulaha]

You are not talking about technical divers here. You are talking about commercial divers. They are two very different things.

Nobody has said anything about not teaching the physiology of diving. You keep making up opposing arguments that nobody is making.

The topic of this thread is NDL diving with tables. Teaching dive physiology and teaching dive tables are two different things.

Non-constructive dialogue - you do not consider the problem as a whole, but try to break it down into simple diving and technical diving. Or, for example, how tables can exist separately from physiology.