Teaching Dive Tables (including Nitrox)

[Valeriy_Kulaha]

Что-то напоминает мне о...
онлайн-школа для ловли мышей

 

[boulderjohn]

If the computer does not work, you need to go up to 12 meters and make a safe stop

Why? I am not aware of any such need taught by any agency.

Then you can go to 6 meters and use all the air there for a reliable result.

Why do you need to use up all your air? I am not aware of any such need taught by any agency.

If your dive computer fails during a NDL dive, then you can go directly to the surface. That is what it means to be on a NDL dive. If you want to do a safety stop, you can, but it is not mandatory.

You are just making stuff up now.

 

[boulderjohn]

No computer can plan an upcoming dive. Therefore, it cannot calculate the required air supply for the dive. And if you have an increased air consumption, your computer will not help you!

You don't need any of that. If your computer dies during an NDL dive, you head to the surface. There is no need to calculate air consumption. If you don't have enough air to get to the surface when a computer dies during an NDL dive, then you also don't have enough air to get to the surface if the computer doesn't die, and you are already in serious trouble.

 

[Valeriy_Kulaha]

So you are talking about a technical dive with only one computer and no backup whatsoever. That is why we have technical dive training, to make that impossible.

You are changing topics. This thread is not about technical diving.

For all types of diving there is one rule - water is deadly for humans!
Even a diver must KNOW all the risks of diving and be able to make decisions INDEPENDENTLY! In solo diving - without a computer and without an instructor. Otherwise, the certificate is invalid

 

[boulderjohn]

A mathematician should be able to do all calculations without a computer! ALL!
Otherwise there should be two types of diplomas - a Mathematician and a mathematician with a Calculator!
It seems we are coming to two types of divers - an Diver and a diver with a Computer

You are creating a false analogy.

A basic knowledge of mathematics is needed to use a calculator, but a knowledge of dive tables is not necessary to use a computer.

You appear to be confusing dive tables with decompression theory. A basic understanding of decompression theory is needed to use tables. A basic understanding of decompression theory is needed to use a dive computer. Understanding how to use tables is not required to understand how to use a computer.

 

[boulderjohn]

For all types of diving there is one rule - water is deadly for humans!
Even a diver must KNOW all the risks of diving and be able to make decisions INDEPENDENTLY! In solo diving - without a computer and without an instructor. Otherwise, the certificate is invalid

I don't know what you are talking about. Are you saying that all divers should be trained for technical diving? How does this make knowing how to use tables necessary?

 

[Valeriy_Kulaha]

Why? I am not aware of any such need taught by any agency.

Why do you need to use up all your air? I am not aware of any such need taught by any agency.

If your dive computer fails during a NDL dive, then you can go directly to the surface. That is what it means to be on a NDL dive. If you want to do a safety stop, you can, but it is not mandatory.

You are just making stuff up now.

1. Talk about NDL assuming by default that the computer is working. Otherwise you can't know that you are in NDL mode.
2. I was a military diver in the USSR. We had a safe depth of 12 m.
3. The golden naval rule - consider yourself closer to danger. Therefore, it is better to stay longer at three meters than to lie an extra month in the hospital (if you are lucky)

 

[JMarc]

A mathematician should be able to do all calculations without a computer! ALL!

I've bad news for you, there are things for which computer are an indispensabletool of mathematicians (and without the confusion you seem to have between maths and arithmetic, mathematicians aren't specifically good at arithmetic in general)

On the main subject:
- knowing how to use tables doesn't help you to understand the underlying phenomenon (it was the case when I learned to dive before DC were common, I don't see why it would be different now)
- having tables that you know how to use doesn't help you in case of a computer issue if you don't have a second source of time and depth, I prefer a second computer as redundancy source of info
- my usual profiles are such that they would mandate far greater deco (especially NDL dives which are the subject of this thread)if done using tables, I wonder how often I'd not have enough gaz with me for that exit path
- if you don't know what are your deco obligations at the time you detect a computer issue to surface safely, you don't pay enough attention to your computer
- in my practice, planning is also done with computers

 

[boulderjohn]

1. Talk about NDL assuming by default that the computer is working. Otherwise you can't know that you are in NDL mode.
2. I was a military diver in the USSR. We had a safe depth of 12 m.
3. The golden naval rule - consider yourself closer to danger. Therefore, it is better to stay longer at three meters than to lie an extra month in the hospital (if you are lucky)

1. We assume that the diver knows how to use the computer.
2. The rules of the USSR are not followed anywhere else I know of. I don't know anyone else who does this, and they all manage to live through their dives.
3. Are you arguing that understanding how to use tables will keep you from getting shot on the surface? How does that help?

 

[Valeriy_Kulaha]

I don't know what you are talking about. Are you saying that all divers should be trained for technical diving? How does this make knowing how to use tables necessary?

Every diver should be aware of ALL the risks during diving and know how to avoid them. Even a technical diver and a nuclear submarine captain can drown in a bathtub!