Tasered over speeding ticket

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Actually, from what I've read, I think Utah does require the driver to sign the ticket, I could be wrong thought. I agree with everything else here.

Here's from a Salt Lake Tribune article:

"We've gotten quite a bit of publicity, especially since it's been on YouTube," said Trooper Cameron Roden, a UHP spokesman.
...

When a driver signs the traffic ticket, it' is not an admission of guilt but merely their legal acknowledgment that they promise to show up to court or to pay the ticket, Roden said.

In the event that a motorist refuses to sign a trooper has two options, Roden said. One is to write "refuses to sign" on the citation, which is then given to the driver. The second is to arrest the driver.
 
Well, I stand corrected. Of course, there is the option to arrest the driver, and this officer has "overzealous rookie" written all over him.
 
With all due respect to you, your link has absolutely nothing to do with the OP's video link and is not at all a good comparison.

White guy in a car on the highway caught for speeding as opposed to a black man coming out of a gated section 8 housing development. Both should be handled differently regardless of what race card of prejudice you may call later.

I'm sorry, but this is bunk. Color of the perp should make absolutely no difference, and you can die just as quick on the side of the road as you can in a housing development. You've just invalidated all your arguments by saying this should not have happened because the guy was white and on the highway instead of in the hood. 'nuff said.
 
I get your point but I still disagree. I agree that the situation escalated to the point that it did in part because of the officer's handling of the situation. Should the officer be as courteous as possible? Absolutely. Does an officer need to have "thicker skin" than the average person? Sure. But the driver was clearly out of line well. Now, because this officer didn't handle the situation as he probably should have, should that prevent him from reacting to a potentially threatening situation as any other officer would when a suspect returns to their car against instruction? I think not. I'll grant that the driver was only pulled over for speeding and that he didn't have any outstanding warrants, but that does not foreclose the possibility that he could still want to hurt the officer. At the point when the officer pulled out the taser and tried to place him under arrest the driver should have complied, but he didn't. You see the situation as mainly a contempt of cop / "ego" situation. While I see that issue in the video, of greater importance/weight to me is the possibility that the driver could be returning to his car for a weapon.
Again, if the guy were inclined to shoot the officer, he already had ample opportunity, and if he had a weapon and had thoughts of using it, he would have had it on him. The guy was just an unhappy speeder with a stubborn streak not a individual presenting a threat that justified tazering him.

Had the officer backed off handed him the unsigned, ticket and said "have a nice day sir and please drive carefully" the incident would have been over with the guy never leaving the car.

Alternatively, had the officer said "I am sorry sir, but if you do not sign the ticket I'll have to arrest you (forgetting for the moment the 'refused to sign' option), how would you like me to handle this?" the situation would have been over as the suspect was most likely rational enough to figure out that signing the ticket was his best course of action.

Instead the officer fils to give the suspect enough information to make an informed choice and compunds this mistkae by abusing his discertionary powers to launch the traffic stop equivalent of a thermonuclear premptive strike. I suppose by your reasoning, the susepct is lucky the officer did not shoot him.

In the distant past when I first became involved in criminal law and law enforcement the research was already clear that departments that adopted shoot to kill policies killed far fewer suspects than departments with shoot to wound policies as it removed the illusion that less lethal force was an option in situations where killing the suspect would not be justified. Sadly, the tazer in many respects represents a return to the less lethal/shoot to wound mentality. Had the officer had only a service pistol, he most likely would have not seen the need to bring it out of the hoslter as the consequences are more dire.

I had an aquaintance and dive buddy once who was an LEO in a medium sized and fairly safe city. In the space of 2 or 3 years he was involved in 3 of the 4 shootings made by police officers. All the shoots were justified under dept policy and state law, but at some point when you look at the situations and attitudes of those involved, you have to conclude that there is a big difference between a shoot being "justified" under dept policy and a shoot being preventable. I'd prefer whenever possible to have an officer that can de-escalate a potentially violent situation rather than create a situation where the use of force is justified or even required and I am sure most taxpayers and citizens would agree.
 
I'm sorry, but this is bunk. Color of the perp should make absolutely no difference, and you can die just as quick on the side of the road as you can in a housing development. You've just invalidated all your arguments by saying this should not have happened because the guy was white and on the highway instead of in the hood. 'nuff said.


I disagree.

I only invalidated my argument that a police officer should treat someone different based on their color or where they live. Because they should not, now how many of them carry that out is another thread.

Do you honestly know anyone black or white who is completely without prejudice? I dont.

My arument that the officer in the video is inept and needs further training on how to control situations, as well as lots of training on communicating his intentions and his instructions is still valid.

:D

By the way I made the color/housing reference because I know I would approach two young black men coming out of the projects different than I would a white guy with his pregnent wife on a minor traffic infraction.

Can you honestly say you wouldn't? You're completely without prejudice?

I would approach with caution in both cases but the black guys coming out of the hood I would be on full alert.

Hey at least I'm honest. Flame away.
 
What I can't believe here is all the people that feel it is ok to argue with a cop, especially at the side of the road. Refuse to follow directions from a cop during a simple traffic stop. Refusal to admit that the speeder acted like a complete idiot. The one I feel sorry for is the unborn baby and the mother, seems they are going to be handicapped through life with this man, I see his inability to teach "respect" or "good citizen" skills to his kids....When a Cop says "Put your hands on your head", man you obey. This Cop will not even get a repremand, but might get some time off with pay to do some pheasant hunting..........
 
What I can't believe here is all the people that feel it is ok to argue with a cop, especially at the side of the road. Refuse to follow directions from a cop during a simple traffic stop. Refusal to admit that the speeder acted like a complete idiot. The one I feel sorry for is the unborn baby and the mother, seems they are going to be handicapped through life with this man, I see his inability to teach "respect" or "good citizen" skills to his kids....When a Cop says "Put your hands on your head", man you obey. This Cop will not even get a repremand, but might get some time off with pay to do some pheasant hunting..........

One of the first things I like to tell new officers in my classes is, if you want to work in a place where no one is allowed to argue with you and must unflinchingly obey your every command, move to North Korea. Otherwise, welcome to law enforcement in America, where suspects still have rights.

As for arguing with the officer. It may not be the most polite thing, or the best way to avoid a ticket, but it also isn't illegal (to an extent). Nevermind the fact that, as many have pointed out, the officer could have very easily avoided a situation where the taser needed be deployed.

The people I really do feel sorry for is the future officers of the UHP who are not going to be able to use this situation as a learning experience because, as usual, the state is not willing to admit the officer made a whole bunch of mistakes.




Now, here is an officer who knows its a lot easier to just take the verbal abuse, give the ticket, and move on. Note that if he really wanted to push the issue he could have easily arrested the guy on several charges, including assault on a police officer.

Patient Cop (I guess you can't imbed Youtube videos on this board)

I should also note that I would never expect every officer to be this patient.
 
One of the first things I like to tell new officers in my classes is, if you want to work in a place where no one is allowed to argue with you and must unflinchingly obey your every command, move to North Korea. Otherwise, welcome to law enforcement in America, where suspects still have rights.

As for arguing with the officer. It may not be the most polite thing, or the best way to avoid a ticket, but it also isn't illegal (to an extent). Nevermind the fact that, as many have pointed out, the officer could have very easily avoided a situation where the taser needed be deployed.

Do we have a right to argue with police officers? Yes, we do.

Should we argue with them out on the side of the highway to the extent this guy did? No, not unless you're looking for more trouble than you have already!
 
Now, here is an officer who knows its a lot easier to just take the verbal abuse, give the ticket, and move on. Note that if he really wanted to push the issue he could have easily arrested the guy on several charges, including assault on a police officer.

[youtube]fzNX_oEal4c[/youtube]

I should also note that I would never expect every officer to be this patient.


You beat me to the punch posting this video, but I'm not sure the URL came over.

YouTube - Patient Cop

Best,
 

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