Tasered over speeding ticket

[Nick_W]

I agree, but I'm not sure it's any worse than the other attitudes so prevalent in today's society, namely, "your not the boss of me and I can do whatever I want" closely followed by "I'm not responsible for my own actions, McDonald's is making me fat".

Actually, I wouldn't say that is prevalent only in today's society. I suppose at one time someone was probably cursing those scofflaws with their "you're not the boss of me and I can dump your tea in the harbor if I want" attitudes.

Suspects have rights, but when an Officer tells you to put your hands on your head, you refuse to do so, and start to flee, ALL BETS ARE OFF, if you teach anything otherwise, you are going to lose some former students.............
I think overall I would rather be shocked than be KBar'd to the kidneys and ribs and head......

What? How is teaching a future officer to actually respect the individual he has pulled over going to lead to their death?

I think you've missed the parts where I, and others, have said the officer's actions prior to the taser being deployed is what led to a situation where the taser had to be deployed. Had he handled the situation anywhere near the way officers are taught to handle the situation, we wouldn't be having this conversation.

Also, you may want to do a little research into deaths in the line of duty. I find it odd that on a board where everyone is always speaking ill of solutions looking for a problem that no one has noticed that the taser is, to some extent, a solution looking for a problem.

No, the principle america was founded on was more like "Let me do as I please or Ill blow your brains out and make a civil war" wasnt it?

What?

Like I said, I don't usually post to these threads, and this is why. So with that, I'm out of here.

 

[jeraldjcook]

No, the principle america was founded on was more like "Let me do as I please or Ill blow your brains out and make a civil war" wasnt it?

Apparently the history of the United States isn't properly taught over there in Norway.

 

[adurso]

The "patient" police officer did an effective job as he never escalated the situation, never raised his voice, never took the abuse personally and never felt the need to demonstrate or prove he was in control, he just maintained control of the situaton. He also recognized the difference between an angry suspect venting and a potentially violent suspect. As for letting the driver drive off...driving while angry is not against the law, not smart maybe, but not aganst the law and as such not a situation where the suspect could be detained or an arrest made. And frankly the guy was past the point of being as mad as he was going to get.

I also do not feel that the officer would have calmed the guy down by being more assertive, or by insisting the guy calm down, it would have just escalated the situation as the guy woudl have been madder at being told he could not be (ie: had no right to be) mad.

A suspect may get mad, yell, swear etc, and deny they deserve the ticket, but inside, more often than not they know they are being treated fairly and as long as you continue to maintain your cool and treat them with respect, they will calm down, accept it and move on.

I also firmly agree that suspects have the right to be mad, to be jerks and have the right to argue as that behavior is clearly allowed under a constitutional right to freedom of expression. Those rights only stop where the rights of another are infringed and verbally abusing a officer may be extremly impolite and disrepectful, but it does not rise to the level where physical force would ever be justified. If you want to be an LEO, plan on not being liked by all who meet you and plan on being called every name in the book on a regular basis. It's usually balanced by totally opposite treatment from other members of the public you serve, but it is still part of the job you better be willing to live with.

More importantly, if we adopt the idea that we unquestioningly obey authority, then we are giving up both are our right and responsibility as citizens to constantly and unceasingly question our government and our elected and appointed officials. That is what made us free, that is what keeps us free and that is what makes us different than every totalitarian regime on the face of the earth. Unquestioning obedience to authority invariably leads to abuse of power and to a police state.

No offense, but; nowhere in the Bill of Rights is there a "freedom of expression". It is NOT part of a LEOs job to be the butt of a heap of abuse. There are specific laws relating to this. Disorderly conduct and curse and abuse specifically in Virginia.

With that said....any law enforcement officer must learn not to take anything personally that is said to them. Citizens are never at their finest when involved with law enforcement. Understanding this, and realizing that the remarks and anger at not personal go a long way towards reducing conflict.

 

[DA Aquamaster]

No offense, but; nowhere in the Bill of Rights is there a "freedom of expression". It is NOT part of a LEOs job to be the butt of a heap of abuse. There are specific laws relating to this. Disorderly conduct and curse and abuse specifically in Virginia.

With that said....any law enforcement officer must learn not to take anything personally that is said to them. Citizens are never at their finest when involved with law enforcement. Understanding this, and realizing that the remarks and anger at notcourts have traditionally given freedom of fst personal go a long way towards reducing conflict.

No offense taken, but the the courts have traditionally given much lattitude in the interpretation of the first amendment. For example, flag burning does not have to involve speech at all, but the expression of the statement it represents is protected under the freedom of speech afforded by the first amendment - which in effect extends to forms of expression well beyond just speech (art, literature, the DIR forum, etc.)

Local agencies can make anything they want illegal...but putting it on the books is one thing, successfully enforcing it is another (federal law will trump state or local law every time when it comes to civil rights, constitutional rights, or federally funded programs), and using force to qwell a verbal insult or even a verbal threat will still be considered excessive. If someone curses at an LEO in VA, I'm sure he or she could be cited for it (would they be cited is another issi), but tazering them for it would still be considered excessive. And quite frankly, now that I pay taxes in VA, I'd prefer the LEO's here spend their time on serious public safety issues rather than getting hung up spending time and money making arrests for what amounts to contempt of cop related isuses.

 

[adurso]

No offense taken, but the the courts have traditionally given much lattitude in the interpretation of the first amendment. For example, flag burning does not have to involve speech at all, but the expression of the statement it represents is protected under the freedom of speech afforded by the first amendment - which in effect extends to forms of expression well beyond just speech (art, literature, the DIR forum, etc.)

Local agencies can make anything they want illegal...but putting it on the books is one thing, successfully enforcing it is another (federal law will trump state or local law every time when it comes to civil rights, constitutional rights, or federally funded programs), and using force to qwell a verbal insult or even a verbal threat will still be considered excessive. If someone curses at an LEO in VA, I'm sure he or she could be cited for it (would they be cited is another issi), but tazering them for it would still be considered excessive. And quite frankly, now that I pay taxes in VA, I'd prefer the LEO's here spend their time on serious public safety issues rather than getting hung up spending time and money making arrests for what amounts to contempt of cop related isuses.

Local agencies cannot make anything they want illegal, the agencies do not create law. Local and state government create law; these laws , as you have noted, follow Federal law. State and local laws may be less restrictive than Federal, but not more restrictive.

The force used is not to quell an insult or curse, but to effect an arrest.

Police officers have discretion, they may choose not to arrest for certain offenses. Other offenses require an arrest. Should an officer not make an arrest for one of these offenses they may be prosecuted criminally and decertified, it is called nonfeasance.

If a citizen is tasered for "contempt of cop", as opposed to effecting an arrest, the officer should be prosecuted.

The serious public safety issues you desire your tax dollars be spent on start with traffic enforcement. The biggest drug busts in Virginia have arisen from traffic stops. More felons are caught as a result of traffic stops than in any other fashion. Traffic stops are a wonderful deterrent in the area of crime prevention.

 

[DA Aquamaster]

We're saying the same thing.

 

[Sheepdog]

I should probably stay out of this, but while I skipped all the posts, I will say there was some serious officer safety issues. As far as the Taser goes, in some states it is illegal to refuse to sign a citation. MD is one of them, if you refuse to sign a citation, you are subject to arrest. Our agency says a taser can be deployed for passive resistance. Walking away after being told your under arrest and given commands to put your hands behind your back, is passive resistance. I am not saying I agree with the way it was handled, just throwing some information out there. I will also had that I have tased people and I myself have been tased.

Tell you what for your veiwing pleasure here is a photo of my taser shot.

 

[dwardtxusa]

Sheepdog

I bet you deserve a few speeding tickets due to the R6? I know I do from my VMAX.

Back to the subject. The kid was an Idiot!!! An officer has to maintain control at a traffic stop. You never know what stupid things people are thinking when they are stopped. I agree tasers are a nice form of restraint, no broken bones, cuts or bullet holes..

Stay safe and try to keep that bike under the speed limit.

 

[CrabCake]

Kid deserved to be tazed. In fact- he needs to be tazed again.

 

[Chris Hipp]

Get rid of speed limits (at least on the highways), save tax money from having cops sitting on the side of the road writing tickets all day, save lives of officers due to traffic related incidents, save lives of innocent civilians from over reacting cops, spend the money you would normally spend on cops writing tickets on cops doing real police work (because speeding is no longer illegal) and make society safer by getting actual criminals off the street.

Obviously this is an oversimplified solution for my fantasy eutopian vision of the world, but I hate seeing tax dollars at waste writing speeding tickets. If the city needs more income then raise sales tax 1% and get rid of the speed limits. And don't get me started on those cameras at the intersections now. Stepping stones.....

Even though I detest most actions taken by the police, the few times that I have been pulled over I was respectful and didn't argue and I have not gotten a ticket so far.