Tank Selection

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Curly

Contributor
Messages
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Location
Pennsylvania and New Hampshire
# of dives
200 - 499
This year, I am seriously considering taking the plunge and buying my one piece of missing equipment -- a tank. Since I do not do much dive travel that doesn't require my truck, it's not a travel issue. It's more a peace of mind issue -- in that I know the tank's history, status, and can fix maintain the valve. Also -- since I'm looking at a LP steel 80/85/98 cf, there's the potential for greater single tank capacity. 90% of my dives are single-tankers, but the greater volume of the 85 & 98 would afford me more time (assuming buddy ain't an air hog).

Anyone have any recommendations? Ideally, I'd just go out and get a nice new OMS LP 98...but that's a little steep for a dude with four young kids.

Cheers,

g
 
What sort of diving are you doing? Wetsuit? Drysuit? Cold water? Warm water? Salt? Fresh?

Most people buy the standard as their first tank... The Luxfer AL80. They make great tanks for wetsuit diving, no matter what the conditions, and later on they'll make good stage or deco bottles if you move into that sort of diving.
 
An AL80 is an awful huge deco bottle for blue water, SeaJay (Blue water = not caves) where you have to sling your deco gas. Most tech divers up here use a 40, especially if you have to sling two of them.

If you're looking for a good steel tank that will last forever, especially in salt water, I'd go towards a PST.
 
I agree with Seajay. It depends on the diving you are doing. While I am a steel advocate since it is easier to get lp fills on boats as well as mixing gasses such as trimix, they are negative in the water (a trim and weight belt issue), more durable, and actually lighter out of the water, it sounds like you should just get an AL80 since it is your first tank. My favorite tank is a steel 112, but you could basically buy two AL80's for that price. I also agree that an AL80 can be used very nicely for a deco bottle if you get into tech diving and get steels later. Check out some of our diving pics coming up from a wreck dive at 400' at www.diverssupport.com/sstahoe.htm ... we use the AL80's for deco. One can never get in trouble from having too much gas! But Boogie711's point is well taken too.
 
SeaJay:
What sort of diving are you doing? Wetsuit? Drysuit? Cold water? Warm water? Salt? Fresh?

Most people buy the standard as their first tank... The Luxfer AL80. They make great tanks for wetsuit diving, no matter what the conditions, and later on they'll make good stage or deco bottles if you move into that sort of diving.

Wetsuit. Cold water. Mostly fresh. I considered the AL80, but liked the idea of the steel tank's neutral buoyancy when empty. Haven't done any diving requiring stage bottles so far, and probably will not.
 
Curly:
Wetsuit. Cold water. Mostly fresh. I considered the AL80, but liked the idea of the steel tank's neutral buoyancy when empty. Haven't done any diving requiring stage bottles so far, and probably will not.

Well, do you dive with enough weight that you'd be able to wear a steel tank and still have enough ditchable to swim up?

I mean, could you, on a full tank, dive to 100 feet, deflate your BC or wing completely (simulating a catastrophic failure) and be able to swim to the surface? If you coundn't, could you ditch enough weight to swim to the surface?

If you're okay with that, could you place the weight of the tank on your back and still be trimmed properly?

The reason why AL tanks work well for wetsuit diving is the same reason that they make good stage or deco bottles - they're neutral when they're half full. That way, they're never really heavy and never really light... They "pass through neutral" as they empty.

Steel tanks don't do that. They're always negative - just moreso when they're full. This is great, assuming that this is what you want. For example, this characteristic would not be beneficial as a stage bottle... Because diving with them full would be a pain.

As back gas, steels work well, and help you to remove some of the weight off of your belt or integrated BC. They also get some of the weight off of your hips and up around your shoulders, where the most buoyant part of your body is: Your lungs.

However, depending on your circumstances, putting that weight up and back there may work badly against your trim - you may find yourself "flipping over" or "turtling" because of the weight on your back, especially if you're diving a backplate, which already moves a good bit of weight onto your back. Other things that make it worse are thick wetsuits with lots of buoyancy on the front of your body and the placement of the rest of your weight too far back on the waist.

But the worst thing that a steel tank can do is, when used in conjuncunction with other weighting options, place you in a position where you do not have enough ditchable weight. That is, for some people in some circumstances, they can not swim up their rig from depth (even if they ditch whatever ditchable weight they have) if a bladder fails catastrophically. One formula for this situation would be a heavy steel tank or two, freshwater, a thick wetsuit, and no ditchable weight. In a situation like that, a diver can really get himself into a lot of trouble. Imagine what would happen to a diver who could not swim his rig up and had a catastrophic bladder failure over a 1000 foot bottom!

For this reason, there are many divers who simply follow the creed of not diving steel tanks when wet. (A drysuit offers a redundant buoyancy source.)

...So the big picture is, yes, you may be able to dive steels while wearing a wetsuit; you might even find it desireable for the weight you get to take off of your belt. However, ensure that it does not overweight you or put you in a position of not being able to extricate yourself from a failed bladder situation.

...And even if you find that you can do that successfully, you still may find trim issues with a steel tank, especially when used in conjunction with a steel backplate or if you use double tanks.

So what's the bottom line? I recommend that if you're diving wet, you stick with AL80's. Later, if you end up getting into staged deco diving or simply want more gas, you'll end up using the AL80's as stage bottles anyway.

If you do decide to go steel while wet, I recommend talking to Genesis about it... He's been able to do it successfully and can give you some pointers on it. Also, the steels which seem to work wet in some cases are the Pressed Steel high pressure tanks such as the E7's and E8's... Not the heavier steels on the market. As great as those are, however, they do take a high pressure fill to equal the amount of gas available in a low pressure AL80; and high pressure fills are not available everywhere. You're also forced to use a DIN valve, which means you'll probably have to reconfigure your regulators. (Additional cost of about $50, usually.)

...And then you'll have to use an adapter or reconfigure your regs again to rent tanks in most places - so if you're traveling and don't want to carry your tanks with you, then you'll have to redo your regs for the yokes on rental tanks.

...Of course, none of this is really that big of a deal - I'm just pointing out why I'd recommend that you buy AL80's as your first tanks and go steel when/if you begin diving dry.
 
SeaJay:
Well, do you dive with enough weight that you'd be able to wear a steel tank and still have enough ditchable to swim up?

I mean, could you, on a full tank, dive to 100 feet, deflate your BC or wing completely (simulating a catastrophic failure) and be able to swim to the surface? If you coundn't, could you ditch enough weight to swim to the surface?

If you're okay with that, could you place the weight of the tank on your back and still be trimmed properly?

The reason why AL tanks work well for wetsuit diving is the same reason that they make good stage or deco bottles - they're neutral when they're half full. That way, they're never really heavy and never really light... They "pass through neutral" as they empty.

Steel tanks don't do that. They're always negative - just moreso when they're full. This is great, assuming that this is what you want. For example, this characteristic would not be beneficial as a stage bottle... Because diving with them full would be a pain.

As back gas, steels work well, and help you to remove some of the weight off of your belt or integrated BC. They also get some of the weight off of your hips and up around your shoulders, where the most buoyant part of your body is: Your lungs.

However, depending on your circumstances, putting that weight up and back there may work badly against your trim - you may find yourself "flipping over" or "turtling" because of the weight on your back, especially if you're diving a backplate, which already moves a good bit of weight onto your back. Other things that make it worse are thick wetsuits with lots of buoyancy on the front of your body and the placement of the rest of your weight too far back on the waist.

But the worst thing that a steel tank can do is, when used in conjuncunction with other weighting options, place you in a position where you do not have enough ditchable weight. That is, for some people in some circumstances, they can not swim up their rig from depth (even if they ditch whatever ditchable weight they have) if a bladder fails catastrophically. One formula for this situation would be a heavy steel tank or two, freshwater, a thick wetsuit, and no ditchable weight. In a situation like that, a diver can really get himself into a lot of trouble. Imagine what would happen to a diver who could not swim his rig up and had a catastrophic bladder failure over a 1000 foot bottom!

For this reason, there are many divers who simply follow the creed of not diving steel tanks when wet. (A drysuit offers a redundant buoyancy source.)

...So the big picture is, yes, you may be able to dive steels while wearing a wetsuit; you might even find it desireable for the weight you get to take off of your belt. However, ensure that it does not overweight you or put you in a position of not being able to extricate yourself from a failed bladder situation.

...And even if you find that you can do that successfully, you still may find trim issues with a steel tank, especially when used in conjunction with a steel backplate or if you use double tanks.

So what's the bottom line? I recommend that if you're diving wet, you stick with AL80's. Later, if you end up getting into staged deco diving or simply want more gas, you'll end up using the AL80's as stage bottles anyway.

If you do decide to go steel while wet, I recommend talking to Genesis about it... He's been able to do it successfully and can give you some pointers on it. Also, the steels which seem to work wet in some cases are the Pressed Steel high pressure tanks such as the E7's and E8's... Not the heavier steels on the market. As great as those are, however, they do take a high pressure fill to equal the amount of gas available in a low pressure AL80; and high pressure fills are not available everywhere. You're also forced to use a DIN valve, which means you'll probably have to reconfigure your regulators. (Additional cost of about $50, usually.)

...And then you'll have to use an adapter or reconfigure your regs again to rent tanks in most places - so if you're traveling and don't want to carry your tanks with you, then you'll have to redo your regs for the yokes on rental tanks.

...Of course, none of this is really that big of a deal - I'm just pointing out why I'd recommend that you buy AL80's as your first tanks and go steel when/if you begin diving dry.

The E-7s have a service pressure of 3442 and allow you to use a yoke fitting if you like or you can remove the valve insert and use a DIN fitting. An E-7 100 is a couple inches shorter than an AL80 and gives you a 33% increase in gas at rated pressure. At 3000 psi, it gives you around 85 cu/ft which is a 10% improvement over the AL80's 77 cu/ft. This may or may not be significant.

The buoyancy differences almost always are. Sometimes this is good, sometimes bad. I began diving an hp 100 about 15 years ago, long before I had heard of a backplate. The shift of weight to my back greatly increased my diving enjoyment and probably improved my trim. However, when I recently moved to a bp, I was forced to choose aluminum over steel to avoid being overweighted. In the summer, diving in saltwater with a 3 mm suit. I wear no weight. In the winter with a 5 mm suit, 3lbs. I'm quite comfortable that I can swim the rig up from depth without assistance. But the steel tank also places the weight away from your center of gravity which as SeaJay said makes you prone to turtling or rolling. I never find this an issue moving side to side. However, if I put myself in a head down position, I cannot easily return to level position by simply extending my legs. Instead, I need to bring my head well up and expand my lungs while doing so. AL80's have their own peculiar balance issues as they tend to be butt light when less than half full.

On balance, I think the steel tank is worth its downsides for me. Though I rarely need it, I appreciate the extra gas--especially when chasing bugs.
 
I agree completely with SeaJay on this issue. I typically dive double AL80s when doing technical dives. I do so in both a dry suit and a wet suit. When diving in a dry suit, I use a SS backplate and a 6 pound V-weight which effectively handles the positive buoyancy factor. When switching to a wet suit, I forgo the V-weight and continue to use the ditchable 12lb weight belt.

DO NOT dive with any rig that can cause your death by being so negatively buoyant that you cannot make it to the surface without a BCD (or alternate means such as a dry suit).

If I need more gas than my double 80s then I go with steels, or I carry another 80 as a sling bottle. There aren't too many ocean dives that require more than this amount of bottom gas.

As far as singles go,...I love the LP95 tanks. They are negative when empty, and offer great balance and comfort for my 6'2" frame. I usually pump them to around 3,100 for an abundance of gas.

Greg Barlow
 
Greg Barlow:
I agree completely with SeaJay on this issue. I typically dive double AL80s when doing technical dives. I do so in both a dry suit and a wet suit. When diving in a dry suit, I use a SS backplate and a 6 pound V-weight which effectively handles the positive buoyancy factor. When switching to a wet suit, I forgo the V-weight and continue to use the ditchable 12lb weight belt.

DO NOT dive with any rig that can cause your death by being so negatively buoyant that you cannot make it to the surface without a BCD (or alternate means such as a dry suit).
If I need more gas than my double 80s then I go with steels, or I carry another 80 as a sling bottle. There aren't too many ocean dives that require more than this amount of bottom gas.

As far as singles go,...I love the LP95 tanks. They are negative when empty, and offer great balance and comfort for my 6'2" frame. I usually pump them to around 3,100 for an abundance of gas.

Greg Barlow

I don't think we disagree. I'm only talking about singles as I don't dive doubles.
 
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