Tank Calculation help needed

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Thanks Guys for that info and formula. I always like to learn so I was curious to see how I would of finished with my 80.

"TsandM" Don't worry I'm very cautious diver and those guys who we do these dive with on Wednesday are very experience and also cautious. They knew right away I would be able to do this dive on a 80 and that's why they switch me to the 117.

On any other dives I'm really good on air consumptions, but this particular one, there are 2 lock system and narrows down, so the current because really strong, so we had to fight it to cross over another lock and that's where I suck lots of air... hahaha. But it was fun and a long drift...
 
I did a dive yesterday with a local group here and this was a long drift dive with strong current. The DM heading this dive wanted me to switch my tank 80cu for one of his 117cu steel. So my question is how do I calculate the air I would of taken if I'd used my 80cu for this dive?

Started at 3400 and finished at 1100.

I'm pretty sure I would of drain it but I'm still curious.

Thanks,

As others have pointed out, the capacity of the tank and the model number can be a little misleading. For example, a Worthington HP119 actually holds 123 cu.ft. of gas at 3442 PSI, a HP100 holds 99.5 cu.ft. at 3442 and a Catalina AL80 holds 77.4 cu.ft. at 3000 PSI.

There is a little information missing from your post. The tank was rated at 117 cu.ft. but at what pressure? If it was 117 @ 3500 PSI then each PSI is 117 / 3500 or 0.33 cu.ft / PSI. So at 3400 PSI it might not have been full. So you really had ~113 cu.ft. On the other hand, if the tank working pressure is 3442 PSI you had 115 cu.ft. to start. Let's say the tank working pressure is 3442 (worst case scenario). In this case you started with 115 cu.ft. of air and ended with ~37 cu.ft. of air. Total air used was 115 - 37 or 77.6 cu.ft. of air. Since an AL80 holds 77.4 cu.ft. of air, you would probably be doing a CESA or hoping on your buddy's octo if you went with an AL80.

Were you diving the drift off the Lillie? It is a fun dive. I usually use my HP119 for that dive.

If you want to calculate how much air you would need for any given dive you'll need to do a little work. Take a dive to 33 feet. Record your tank pressure and do a normal dive for say 10 minutes. Note your tank pressure after 10 minutes. If you stay at 33 feet you are at 2 ATA. Every breath you take at 2 ATA is twice the volume you take at the surface. If you used 15 cu.ft. in 10 minutes then you used 1.5 cu.ft. / minute at 2 ATA. Your surface Air Consumption rate (SAC rate) would be 0.75 cu.ft. / minute. At 33 feet you would use 1.5 cu.ft. per minute, at 66 feet you would use 2.25 cu.ft. / minute, at 80 feet you would use (80 / 33) + 1 * 0.75 cu.ft. / minute. General formula is ((depth / 33) + 1) * SAC_rate.

Lillie drift is around 80 feet. If my SAC rate is 0.75 then I'm going to be using 2.57 cu.ft. / minute. A 30 minute dive will require approximate 80 cu.ft. (2.57 * 30 = 77.1 cu.ft.). I want a safety margin of one third. So two thirds for the dive and one third for safety. This means multiple the air needed for the dive by 1.5. If I need 80 cu.ft. for the dive then I want to take 80 * 1.5 or 120 cu.ft.

Lowering your SAC rate means you can carry less air *BUT* you want to carry enough air for you *OR* your buddy. If your buddy is an air hog, you need to carry more air because you are his backup.
 
That is not always the case. I have seen HP 100 tanks rated at 3180+10% with REE numbers on them. There is actually one for sale on Scubaboard right now. http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/classifieds-tanks-valves-bands/392609-faber-hp100-sale.html

T
hese are different than the typical 3442 HP100's you will find. The same with the 117, they are measured at 3442.

This is the best tank chart I have found - Scuba Cylinder Specifications from Tech Diving Limited - 928-855-9400

Yea, that's where the names fall apsrt. Sometimes I have seen such cylinders called mid pressure just to confuse things.

In any case cylinders marked for 3442 or 3500 are going to be special permit cylinders (all that I know of anyhow) and have the stated capacity at the rated pressure @ 70F. Also note that the advertized capacity may not match the actual spec. Some sold as 100CF for instance end up being 102CF.

Be specific, consult a specification chart, do the math.

Pete
 
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"HP" and "LP" don't actually mean anything. 3AA tanks, and only 3AA tanks, are eligible for the +, and are marketed to their plussed capacity. Common 3AA tanks are 2250 (+ed to 2475), 2400 (+ed to 2640), 2730 (+ed to 3003) and 3180 (+ed to 3498). Common exemptions are 3442 and 3500.
 
Back to heading, if I want to do a long drift dive on an 80 tank. The best way to "stretch" your air is to sneak up to the surface, watch the buoy, and towards the end of the dive submerge unnoticed. You will definitely impress all when you announce that you still have 2800 lbs left and can prove it. It however will only work once unless you dive with total dunces.:eyebrow:
 
Well, I got my information from the TDL Cylinder chart, which indicates that the Faber 117 is 117 at +10. I don't own any 117s and know no one who does. I still stand by the idea that you have to know at what pressure your tank holds its listed volume.
 
In shallow water on a single it does not make much difference, but in deeper water and with larger cylinders you should also calculate usable volume — basically the gas you actually can’t get out of the tank. The precision of analog SPG gauges may render the calculation lost in the tolerance, but easily shows on digital dive computer pressure readouts

First subtract the first stage regulator pressure loss, conservatively 150 PSI for a balanced first stage and 300 PSI on an unbalanced. Then subtract the bottom pressure; though you get most of it back on ascent, it is effectively the empty pressure on the bottom. For example, you must subtract 44.5 PSI at 100' or 89 PSI at 200'. Remember not to mix absolute and gauge pressures in your calculations since you can’t get that last atmosphere of gas out even with the valve open on the surface.
 
Well, I got my information from the TDL Cylinder chart, which indicates that the Faber 117 is 117 at +10. I don't own any 117s and know no one who does. I still stand by the idea that you have to know at what pressure your tank holds its listed volume.

Lynn - it could be a bit of confusion with the column heading. It shows Final capacity, in cu. Ft. (+10%) but I believe the +10% part is meant for the tanks with ratings that include the +10%. If a tanks is simply rated at a specific number like 3442, that is the straight capacity, no +10% involved.
 
metric system power :D

volume in liter, pressure in bar
if the tank is a 12L at 200bar, it contains 12*200=2400L
it is a 15L at 300 bar, it contains 15*300=4500L

easy, from my point de vue

no lp, no hp, no +10%
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/peregrine/

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