Talk to me about the Conshelf XIV Supreme

[TheShark1]

Let's recap:
You're leaving "in a year or two" to go teach (presumably to take the IDC and then get one of the imaginary jobs teaching scuba in a tropical resort) and you're ALREADY this uptight about getting the "best" regulator?

You ask the same dumb question over and over, get an answer you don't like, and then accuse the people that have volunteered their time to help you of "talking out of your backside".

Forgive me for being rude, but you probably have more pressing concerns than getting a new regulator.

Good luck in your dive instructor career!

I just think it's odd that I've asked so many times for a direct compare/contrast w some specific modern regulators.. and not one person has responded to that request.

Also. FYI. I'm a DM now. I work full-time at a shop. I'm going to be an instructor in the spring (doing my IDC here in the US). Then I'm going to instruct here in the US for a year, getting experience and becoming more knowledgeable, before I take off.

 

[TheShark1]

Oh, eventually, probably because I have dozens of regulator sets already inlcuding some of the most rare not to mention a collection of dh regs. And at the moment I am closing in on blowing about, oh, perhaps I shall not say, a wheelbarrow of money and my 2017 budget on a new rig to replace this:

Which, now that I mentioned it, the OP has a an insistence upon a good, better and best mentality. He should have shopped Sears Big Book back in the 1960s. There is no best, just that which meets your needs. And, none of these gurly mahn single hose toys are king of the hill anyways, why no, they are no Daisy at all. The twin hose Argonaut Kraken sits there.

The reason so many of us like the Conshelf and the SP 109 is that they are metal and they have bullet proof design. In the case of the Conshelf it kicks 109 butt, sorry. The only reason it is not more loved is it was ubiquitous in the 70s, 80s, 90s and those who have to have the best buy SP stuff even if it is not. So the belief remains the little 109 is best and it might be "better" but for the tinsy little exhaust valve and the Conshelf is to me therefore "best" IMO.

Why is the Conshelf better than todays regs like the Titan, Legend, Apeks, well, it is not except for the chrome brass casing which is far more durable than most modern second stages that brag about having a metal barrel, jeeeez, why not just have a metal body? Well, because then they would have to charge more for the premium feature and they would not crack out after a few years so they would not get to sell you another. The Conshelf breaths moist, resists freeze up, is more tolerant of rough handling, uses a simple downstream design instead of the so called balanced designs on most premium regs today and requires but a minimum of tools, easily obtained to maintain. How many times do we all have to collectively say this?

I have owned, or currently own, several of the regs mentioned by the OP and the rest I have been inside of at least a representative model. I choose the Titan LX, Conshelf XIV and SP109 as my go to single hose regulators. I tend to prefer simple devices that are beautiful in execution and durable in use.

My first two regulators:

The Mistral was a gift, the Calypso was a summer of work. The Mistral is what I learned to dive with. Best, for me, this is best:

Since up graded with the new Argonaut DSV, Argonaut shoulder cushions, and Argonaut slimline B&G SPG and Argonaut hose gaiters:

N

Thank you, sir. This is exactly the kind of response I was hoping to read

 

[oldschoolto]

I don't dislike the answer at all. I'm just delving deeper into it.

..The same question could be asked - if it's such a great reg, why is Aqualung no longer selling it to the public?

The conshelf will out last most of the modern regulators on the market.. No money in that... The conshelf costs more to make being it's stamped brass then chrome plated..

You seem hung up on this " BEST " or " BETTER " thing.. ALL THE REGULATORS made today are fine.. The top of the line regulators are all good breathers.. I don't think anyone can really tell the differences in them..

It comes down to easy of rebuilding them.. Tools needed to do it... Can you get parts world wide.. How often do you need to play with it.. So right off the Bat... Plastic regulators are out... Any Regulator that needs a special tool is out ... If You can't get parts easily for it, Then it's out...

I'm trying to help you understand that the Conshelf XIV supreme has stood the test of time... MOST people think that new is better, That's not always the case.. Companies make money coming out with a new toy every few years that's " GREATLY IMPROVED " and " Using the newest materials and design "... THE FACT IS... The workings of regulators have not changed in 50+ years... Small little changes.. And not always for the better...

And, I'm not a big shot like some of the guys on the site that know far more than me... When the first stage failed after 37 years, 25 of it sitting on a shelf in some store room... I sent it to Herman to look at it.. Because he knows more than me.. You learn in life to listen to people that are very good at what they do.. Very easy to tell the guys that don't.. Like the guy at your shop that said a conshelf can't be rebuilt and you can;t get parts..

Jim....

 

[TheShark1]

I have questions still.. (*please also keep in mind, save $2,000 range all-titanium regs.. I could get any reg still sold to public dealers cheaper than I could a new Conshelf with my employee discount).

#1: The conshelf XIV Supreme. 1st and 2nd stage -- Marine Brass, Chrome Plated. The one question I have with this reg.. ***Is that big black exhaust thing under the 2nd stage going to make it bad to teach in!? I mean.. no student's going to have a reg like that. If you're going to teach students how to scuba dive, shouldn't you be teaching them using similar equipment??http://www.aqualung.com/militaryand...n/108102_Conshelf14_Users_Man_11_10_LoRes.pdf

#2: The Scubapro MK17EVO/A700. 1st stage -- Marine Brass, Chrome Plated.. just like the Conshelf. 2nd stage -- "full metal case, front cover and barrel." Is this design any less-metal than the Conshelf??
http://www.scubapro.com/en-US/USA/regulators/products/mk17-evoa700.aspx

#3: The Apeks Black Sapphire and Aqualung Legend LUX (Supreme) have PVD coating on the 1st stage -- which is supposed to be tougher than chrome. But there's no mention of this being on the 2nd stage. So.. I'm guessing those are just plastic for the most part.

#4: The Atomic T-3 is a Piston that claims to be environmentally sealed (like Scubapro's MK25EVO claims to be environmentally sealed). But it's not possible for a Piston to be environmentally sealed, really, is it? It's still letting water into the 1st stage. There still seems to be a lot of plastic on the 2nd stage too.

 

[oldschoolto]

I have questions still.. (*please also keep in mind, save $2,000 range all-titanium regs.. I could get any reg still sold to public dealers cheaper than I could a new Conshelf with my employee discount).

#1: The conshelf XIV Supreme. 1st and 2nd stage -- Marine Brass, Chrome Plated. The one question I have with this reg.. ***Is that big black exhaust thing under the 2nd stage going to make it bad to teach in!? I mean.. no student's going to have a reg like that. If you're going to teach students how to scuba dive, shouldn't you be teaching them using similar equipment??http://www.aqualung.com/militaryand...n/108102_Conshelf14_Users_Man_11_10_LoRes.pdf

#2: The Scubapro MK17EVO/A700. 1st stage -- Marine Brass, Chrome Plated.. just like the Conshelf. 2nd stage -- "full metal case, front cover and barrel." Is this design any less-metal than the Conshelf??
http://www.scubapro.com/en-US/USA/regulators/products/mk17-evoa700.aspx

#3: The Apeks Black Sapphire and Aqualung Legend LUX (Supreme) have PVD coating on the 1st stage -- which is supposed to be tougher than chrome. But there's no mention of this being on the 2nd stage. So.. I'm guessing those are just plastic for the most part.

#4: The Atomic T-3 is a Piston that claims to be environmentally sealed (like Scubapro's MK25EVO claims to be environmentally sealed). But it's not possible for a Piston to be environmentally sealed, really, is it? It's still letting water into the 1st stage. There still seems to be a lot of plastic on the 2nd stage too.

Don't know what scuba pro tools are needed to work on the MK17... And parts are expensive and can be hard to find...

But , It's a really nice looking regulator and built very well...

Jim...

 

[TheShark1]

Don't know what scuba pro tools are needed to work on the MK17... And parts are expensive and can be hard to find...

But , It's a really nice look regulator and built very well...

Jim...

How are scubapro parts hard to find? It's like the biggest scuba co there is?

 

[oldschoolto]

How are scubapro parts hard to find? It's like the biggest scuba co there is?

Because they don't sell outside their dealerships... There is some gray market stuff out there... But it's hit and miss.. They also charge a lot for there rebuild kits... I've heard of shops charging $40 bucks or better...

Jim...

 

[TheShark1]

Because they don't sell outside their dealerships... There is some gray market stuff out there... But it's hit and miss.. They also charge a lot for there rebuild kits... I've heard of shops charging $40 bucks or better...

Jim...

I've got a couple questions..

1. How often should an instructor doing 2,000 dives/year in salt water and chlorine rebuild his reg? Conshelf, Modern Scubapro/Aqualung/Apeks/etc.

2. Could I just buy like 50 rebuild kits now (with my discount) and use them as I needed them over the years?

3. It's easier to get Conshelf parts? The "gray-market" stuff is better? Or Aqualung sells parts to non-authorized dealers?

 

[halocline]

I've got a couple questions..

1. How often should an instructor doing 2,000 dives/year in salt water and chlorine rebuild his reg? Conshelf, Modern Scubapro/Aqualung/Apeks/etc.

2. Could I just buy like 50 rebuild kits now (with my discount) and use them as I needed them over the years?

3. It's easier to get Conshelf parts? The "gray-market" stuff is better? Or Aqualung sells parts to non-authorized dealers?

1. I really doubt that you'll be doing 2000 dives/year, but let's say for the sake of argument it's actually 1000, which is a lot for most full time instructors. Probably you would want to rebuild twice a year, but that's a guess. As far as pool use, I would really recommend that you use a rental reg or something similar. Most instructors do that rather than subject their high end regs to the pool. This is the 2nd time I've told you this, and so have other responders.

2. Yes you can buy rebuild kits if your shop will sell them to you. 50 rebuild kits is likely to cost substantially more than the regulator itself. The shelf life on the kits is probably a good 10 years, so if it were me, I'd be more inclined to get 10 of them. You're not going to the moon.

3. Conshelf parts are available aftermarket which gives you more options in more parts of the world. Older SP regs can also use aftermarket parts. SP and aqualung have similar policies towards restricting parts sales in the U.S. In other countries it might be different. I've never had any problems buying SP parts from a dealer in the Caribbean.

You're just making such a big deal out of nothing. Get whatever reg you want, it will work just fine. You could successfully teach OW classes in the lowest end rental reg in the shop. Many excellent instructors do just that.

 

[dumpsterDiver]

So yesterday a new diver on the boat had what appeared to be a conshelf first stage. The hoses (or at least one was sticking way up off the top the regulator. So we offered to "help" and maybe change a few hoses from different ports so hoses are running down not up where they can get whacked off if the diver is trying to catch lobsters in a ledge.

First we took off the main regulator hose and it had one of those extra large size ports (and matching hose of course).. So I was a little baffled with the large diameter port defining where the primary second stage ges and I though just one HP port, the hose routing options looked limited to me and not something I would like. Was I missing something or do you have to put up with this type of hose routing system (hoses sticking up)?