Taking GPS coordinates of a site... captain's permission?

[iluvtheocean]

not sure about N.C., but in florida for fossil hunting you actually need a permit (admittedly it's cheap and very easy to get) excluding Shark Teeth
FGS, Florida fossils

most people when you post a photo online won't bother to examine the metadata embedded into unless they are up to something nefarious.

 

[drbill]

I know of one incident where a dive boat tried to find a specific submerged dive site and the coordinates the dive boat captain had were way off. They had to rely on a customer who actually had the right coordinates in his hand held to find the site.

 

[NAM001]

Each time this topic comes up I find it funny how each captain swears his eternal well being will be demolished and his family will be left to a life of destitution. So defensive are they that they cling to the aspects of captains rights to confiscate, destroy interfere with or disable the property of others in preservation of thier very existance and if necessary global keel hauling of each violator. Grow up... Accept the fact that technology whether you like it or not has transformed from your best friend to your enemy. This is not an issue of someone who broke into your stateroom and stole your secret charts. Your locations are no more secure than those of the pier you moor to. No one has ever made a radar that did not already have the radar detector available. As such most states prohibit thier use. Prohibitation has never stopped the use of anything. If anything it established a mystery of sorts that every one wanted to be part of. 10-4 good buddy there is a bear at the eastbound in the bushes at the mixmaster. Folks could give a crap about that bear, they just enjoyed knowing about it, even those driving 5 under the speed limit. And look wht it did for sales. So is the same for numbers. I find it very difficult to believe that the exact numbers are that vital to any operator. You run a jammer, well good for you, you cant navigate with the jammer on. All anyone needs is an apx location to start with (last known good signal) , especially anyone that has the rudimentary nav skills needed resolve your true location from that last known point. I will give the captains that it is rude to not comply with the wishes of the boat. However wishes is all that it is and can be inforced. Heck give them a map when they get on board with the apx location so they can stick a pin on thier home globe and 99.9% of your problems will now be taken care of. People want what they cant have. The more you gripe the more people want to know why. Make no illusion you are hiding something and no one will ask or persue. Finally it only takes on out of a million passengers to spill the beans and your secret is no longer secure. so
#1 what are the odds that one in a million will get your numbers and tell.
#2 why would you put the 99.99% of your cashflow source in scrutiny to prevent the .01% from finding out your posit.

I completely understand the need for secrecy for say todays fishing areas, The longer you maintain the security of it the more money you make. However fishing areas are moving and the secret posit changes daily. Such is not the case of the location of Gibralter or any island or non mobile location with a posit that has a visual reference. Todays reef on the north side of the island will be in fact on the north side tomarrow. Some spot that lines up with 2 mountain peaks in 75 ft of water 100-200 yds from shore are home to the remnants of a casino one armed bandit. Give these people a break they dont care about the slot machine. they are going to stick the pin on the island not the actual machine. Anyone who wants your numbers to take your profits will be more sofisticated in doing so than your customers have intrest in engaging in. I doubt any captain is in posession of any numbers that are so unique that it leaves any competition out in the cold. If that did exist you would not be concrned about anyone paying 70 dollars for a 2 tank dive trip as they could not afford the cost of such an exclusive location. For those that are left in the cold all the jammers in the world will not prevent others from following you to your secret spot and deriving your numbers when you secure your jammer and leave. Perhaps you should hang a sign that says FOLLOWING SHIPS ARE SUBJECT TO HAVING THIER NAV MAST SHOT OFF TO INSURE MY POSIT SECURITY. The only effective way to be secure things would be a strip search and confiscation prior to boarding. But business wise, one word of that leaking out, makes the cure worse than the problem.

 

[jongles]

Personally I'm not really interested in recording GPS co-ordinates and I understand a Captain/ dive op wishing to protect the secrecy of their special sites. I like to believe these sites where painstakingly sought out at great cost and manhours(not to mention risk) in the hope not to find the great diving cashcow but rather for the love of diving and the challenge of discovery.So I can understand how someone, after all their hard work would feel a sense of ownership to the site and if I was asked not to record or disseminate their secret I would respect that.
However if GPS was important to me I'd be fairly peeved at the threats and technology blindfolding that really is just moot because if the site was that good and I mean it would have to be seriously good(casino run by mermaids) then someone could easily circumvent the restrictions and if that someone was me I still wouldn't disseminate the numbers,I'd definitely want to keep that site secret.

PS- do these operators have a ban on me bringing a sextant/octant onboard? not that i know how to use them.

 

[Nemrod]

PS- do these operators have a ban on me bringing a sextant/octant onboard? not that i know how to use them.

No, just bananas.

N

 

[NAM001]

I agree with you. And if i was asked not to collect numbers I would respect the boats request, so long as they give me some numbers to pin a spot on the map hanging in the den.

Personally I'm not really interested in recording GPS co-ordinates and I understand a Captain/ dive op wishing to protect the secrecy of their special sites. I like to believe these sites where painstakingly sought out at great cost and manhours(not to mention risk) in the hope not to find the great diving cashcow but rather for the love of diving and the challenge of discovery.So I can understand how someone, after all their hard work would feel a sense of ownership to the site and if I was asked not to record or disseminate their secret I would respect that.
However if GPS was important to me I'd be fairly peeved at the threats and technology blindfolding that really is just moot because if the site was that good and I mean it would have to be seriously good(casino run by mermaids) then someone could easily circumvent the restrictions and if that someone was me I still wouldn't disseminate the numbers,I'd definitely want to keep that site secret.

PS- do these operators have a ban on me bringing a sextant/octant onboard? not that i know how to use them.

---------- Post added February 28th, 2014 at 06:17 PM ----------

Just received this in my mail and i thought of this thread and how human nature deals with a challenge.
Without the threat fo the panther the story would not exist.

An old Doberman starts chasing rabbits and before long, discovers that he's lost. Wandering about, he notices a panther heading rapidly in his direction with the intention of having lunch. The old Doberman thinks, "Oh, oh! I'm in deep **** now!" Noticing some bones on the ground close by, he immediately settles down to chew on the bones with his back to the approaching cat. Just as the panther is about to leap, the old Doberman exclaims loudly, "Boy, that was one delicious panther! I wonder, if there are any more around here?" Hearing this, the young panther halts his attack in mid-strike, a look of terror comes over him and he slinks away into the trees. "Whew!," says the panther, "That was close! That old Doberman nearly had me!" Meanwhile, a squirrel who had been watching the whole scene from a nearby tree, figures he can put this knowledge to good use and trade it for protection from the panther. So, off he goes. The squirrel soon catches up with the panther, spills the beans and strikes a deal for himself with the panther. The young panther is furious at being made a fool of and says, "Here, squirrel, hop on my back and see what's going to happen to that conniving canine!" Now, the old Doberman sees the panther coming with the squirrel on his back and thinks, "What am I going to do now?," but instead of running, the dog sits down with his back to his attackers, pretending he hasn't seen them yet, and just when they get close enough to hear, the old Doberman says ....... "Where's that squirrel? I sent him off an hour ago to bring me another panther!" Moral of this story... Don 't mess with the old dogs... Age and skill will always overcome youth and treachery! Bull **** and brilliance only come with age and experience.

 

[markmud]

Hello All,

As a former professional mariner who was taught old school--I don't need no stink'n GPS to fix a position. For any trip under 100 nautical miles to sea, all I need is to catch an occasional glimpse of the binnacle to know where we are going. I always study charts, Coast Pilots, and other navigational information before a voyage. If the skipper does not make me sign a waiver in advance regarding the positions that we dive, I will plot those dive spots on my charts once I get back home (or while I am on the voyage). Currents, wind, fetch cycle anomalies, low visibility, impending hurricane--it does not matter as I can work through the navigational problem.

As a currently licensed master mariner who has Merchant Marine Academy training and experience as a merchant seaman on small and large vessels, it is legally incumbent on me to keep track of the actions of the vessel's crew, even though I am a paying passenger. I wish this was not the case; however, Administrative Law judges have created precedent where a professional mariner must give assistance and advice to a crew when an accident happens or is about to happen. I can't claim that I was not crew on the boat and wash my hands of the situation. I know better; therefore, I could be held partially responsible for any accident that occurs. As a result, I study-up on local knowledge before every dive or fishing trip I take. I also evaluate the condition of the vessel and crew. We have declined trips because the crew and/or boat were not fit for sea and have so stated this information to the operator.

My point is this: The crew can cry all they want about protecting "their" sites. They don't own them. If they want to keep their sites secret they should not sell rides to them!

Captain Mark.

 

[BoltSnap]

In my part of the world, if the coordinates of a wreck or even a reef with good marine life are made public, this means the end of the marine life and even further destruction of the wreck by fishermen who use dynamite for fishing. As divers, we keep this information as secrete as humanly possible primarily to protect the wreck and marine life. I would have a "no GPS/Recording of coordinates" policy on my boat if I run a dive/fishing boat charter business. I will make a point of letting the clients know before they step in the boat and part of the waiver/contract document. If they have a problem with it, don't go on my boat.

 

[NAM001]

I would say 2 things..
1. good for you as your proposed actions have a portective environmental impact.
2. thats your part of the world.

In my part of the world, if the coordinates of a wreck or even a reef with good marine life are made public, this means the end of the marine life and even further destruction of the wreck by fishermen who use dynamite for fishing. As divers, we keep this information as secrete as humanly possible primarily to protect the wreck and marine life. I would have a "no GPS/Recording of coordinates" policy on my boat if I run a dive/fishing boat charter business. I will make a point of letting the clients know before they step in the boat and part of the waiver/contract document. If they have a problem with it, don't go on my boat.

 

[redacted]

In my part of the world, if the coordinates of a wreck or even a reef with good marine life are made public, this means the end of the marine life and even further destruction of the wreck by fishermen who use dynamite for fishing. As divers, we keep this information as secrete as humanly possible primarily to protect the wreck and marine life. I would have a "no GPS/Recording of coordinates" policy on my boat if I run a dive/fishing boat charter business. I will make a point of letting the clients know before they step in the boat and part of the waiver/contract document. If they have a problem with it, don't go on my boat.

As long as you let me know before you accept my $$$, I'm good with it. Taking the $$$ and waiting until boarding might not work.