Tigerman
Contributor
You should just consider him a troll and be done with it really..
Taking GPS coordinates of a site... captain's permission?
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Reck Diver
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Ana
.
I don't know anything about the law on this situation, but I experienced a funny situation in the Gulf of Mexico, many miles off Panama City.
Most of the published sites can get crowded on good summer days, to me is extremely annoying to transit 2 hours or more to encounter a boat on the site. So I used to go very early or very late. A captain of one of the boats at work gave me a dozen numbers that were supposed to be extremely exclusive, he knew well that I don't socialize with the diver community up there so the chances of me giving the numbers to others were zero.
One day my husband and I head out to one of those sites, and sure enough it would be our luck, there is a fishing boat on the spot. Well it isn't necessary to go all the way to the actual spot to see is occupied, as soon as we were certain that boat was on the spot we changed course and started aiming to another location. After we changed course the boat started moving, so we figured maybe they are leaving so we can dive there after all... oh noooo the guy was now pissy and coming at us very fast because he saw we have a radar dome on top of the cabin, and for sure we were stealing his numbers. There was a lot of red neck talk between the boats that I couldn't understand, but my husband is bilingual and working for the Navy all his life, can be as rich with his vocabulary as the nastiest sailor. Things didn't scalate further than heavy language and a few hand signals, but I got he feeling that we were close to move on to display of firepower... all for the numbers of a location that after I actually saw, I didn't think it was that amazing. But maybe because too many people had the numbers already and it was no longer as good as when the one first person found it.
the ocean may be huge but it has very big areas of nothing, google earth shows big wrecks along with published numbers but is the smaller spots that can produce a lot of pleasure or fish or both, but this smaller locations can't handle the pounding of boat after boat, day in and day out.
Maybe because I grew up among fishermen, to me is such a no brainer that spots in the ocean are closely guarded and should be respected. There's such a huge amount of published sites, leave the private locations private. It takes so much effort and resources to discover a good spot, making the numbers public is pretty much stealing. Yes we all have smart phones these days and it probably takes effort to actually disconnect the GPS but you don't have to write down the data collected, much less use it or give it to others without the blessing of the person that got you there.
Most of the published sites can get crowded on good summer days, to me is extremely annoying to transit 2 hours or more to encounter a boat on the site. So I used to go very early or very late. A captain of one of the boats at work gave me a dozen numbers that were supposed to be extremely exclusive, he knew well that I don't socialize with the diver community up there so the chances of me giving the numbers to others were zero.
One day my husband and I head out to one of those sites, and sure enough it would be our luck, there is a fishing boat on the spot. Well it isn't necessary to go all the way to the actual spot to see is occupied, as soon as we were certain that boat was on the spot we changed course and started aiming to another location. After we changed course the boat started moving, so we figured maybe they are leaving so we can dive there after all... oh noooo the guy was now pissy and coming at us very fast because he saw we have a radar dome on top of the cabin, and for sure we were stealing his numbers. There was a lot of red neck talk between the boats that I couldn't understand, but my husband is bilingual and working for the Navy all his life, can be as rich with his vocabulary as the nastiest sailor. Things didn't scalate further than heavy language and a few hand signals, but I got he feeling that we were close to move on to display of firepower... all for the numbers of a location that after I actually saw, I didn't think it was that amazing. But maybe because too many people had the numbers already and it was no longer as good as when the one first person found it.
the ocean may be huge but it has very big areas of nothing, google earth shows big wrecks along with published numbers but is the smaller spots that can produce a lot of pleasure or fish or both, but this smaller locations can't handle the pounding of boat after boat, day in and day out.
Maybe because I grew up among fishermen, to me is such a no brainer that spots in the ocean are closely guarded and should be respected. There's such a huge amount of published sites, leave the private locations private. It takes so much effort and resources to discover a good spot, making the numbers public is pretty much stealing. Yes we all have smart phones these days and it probably takes effort to actually disconnect the GPS but you don't have to write down the data collected, much less use it or give it to others without the blessing of the person that got you there.
Mike
Contributor
Hard to believe you're a proponent of 'secret' spots based on your description of such an incident, redneck behavior as you described it. Describing it as red neck behavior pretty much qualifies the mentality of those involved with all this secrecy as pretty much dumb asses doesn't it?
The futility of all this is like trying to carry water in the desert in a sieve isn't it? A boat stationary in the middle of no where in the ocean visible for 10 miles in every direction.
Boat 1 approaching boat 2 on it's secret spot - "What are you doing out here?"
Boat 2 "Shh... I'm hiding"
Boat 1 "Umm.. I saw you from 10 miles away..."
Boat 2 "Shh... I'm hiding."
The futility of all this is like trying to carry water in the desert in a sieve isn't it? A boat stationary in the middle of no where in the ocean visible for 10 miles in every direction.
Boat 1 approaching boat 2 on it's secret spot - "What are you doing out here?"
Boat 2 "Shh... I'm hiding"
Boat 1 "Umm.. I saw you from 10 miles away..."
Boat 2 "Shh... I'm hiding."
Ana
.
Yeah, I think is futile but I do see small fishing charters investing a lot of resources to give its customers a good experience and an almost for sure catch... is not my thing, but I can understand them getting pissy when their paycheck is being threatened
By the way my reference was more to their accent than their behavior.
Also if we are exploring looking for spots we won't go where other boats are, we haven't ever captured numbers with the radar. At the same time I won't disclose the numbers for any location we have found and believe we are the only ones who have.
Doesnt this hit it right on the head. Any boat operator would be much more ahead of the game to say that "While we know the locations of thse dive spots cant be kept secret , we would ask you not to disseminate where you were today so that we can sontinue to provide you with unoccupied dive spots for your enjoyment. Now who could not respect the captain or the attitude of the charter for saying that.
---------- Post added January 10th, 2013 at 11:02 PM ----------
This example is not the same as the dive spot the location for fishing is a moving location its security is somewhat assured by the fish moving from one place to another. by the time the word gets out the location has moved. However it still does not prevent one boat from foloowing/noteing the location and fishing it when the first leaves tha area. Once again that is not the scenerio of the diver.
---------- Post added January 10th, 2013 at 11:02 PM ----------
This example is not the same as the dive spot the location for fishing is a moving location its security is somewhat assured by the fish moving from one place to another. by the time the word gets out the location has moved. However it still does not prevent one boat from foloowing/noteing the location and fishing it when the first leaves tha area. Once again that is not the scenerio of the diver.
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Special "secret" spots for fishing boats is an interesting discussion. I definately can understand that charter fishing boats (I've been on them) need to take customers to where the fish are, or customers won't return. I can see how pissing matches can easily develope when money is at stake. I don't know how this can be regulated, or whether it should be. A whole lot of the U.S. (& Canada) is private land, govt. land, or otherwise inaccessible to the public (exceptions are the very few remote areas left where nobody cares or state/co. parks, etc., where you pay). The ocean....hmmmm.....I know there are federal and state fishing laws and geographical lines dividing them. But for the most part as long as what you're catching or doing is legal it would seem the ocean, gulf, etc. is open everywhere to everyone. As stated, I do have sympathy for fishermen trying to make a living, but it is interesting that divers can be concerned with that considering the depletion of big game fish worldwide and that divers generally think a huge chunk of the world should be "no take" marine sanctuaries.
theduckguru
Contributor
Really folks, if someone really wants to engage in marine espionage, there are plenty of devices available that are more accurate than an IPhone and will passively provide everything you want while zipped up in a compartment in your dive bag just about anywhere in the world. So unless a crew is going to search all the passenger's gear for such devices, threatening cell phone owners is silly.
http://www.liveviewgps.com/worldwide+gps+satellite+tracker.html
http://www.liveviewgps.com/worldwide+gps+satellite+tracker.html
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That's of course your prerogative. Problem is, we don't believe you unless you back your opinion up with, y'know, facts and citations. You know what they say about opinions, don't you? They are like assholes: everyone has one.
Trolls have been extinct in Norway since 1914. Did you really not know that? :cool2:
Ana
.
I agree that what applies to fishing doesn't necessarily applies for diving.... unless you're diving in a location where spearfishing is pretty much the main reason to dive.
Of course that's just one person's opinion but after seeing the handful of wrecks and constructions trash piles on that area of the gulf, my only motivation was the amazing odds of bringing dinner home if diving a good spot.
I pretty much gave up on that area, the boat is now in the Atlantic side by Pompano, and the abundance of dive sites and options changes the game all together... you always aim for a private spot that is only yours, but being so close to shore it doesn't remain private very long..... with that said, it is fun to explore for the next good dive spot when it is just for privacy not to make a living.
---------- Post added January 11th, 2013 at 08:42 AM ----------
Definitely sounds like a great way to approach the situation, I don't go on fishing charters so don't have a clue of what the operators tell the customers, would be a shame if they ASSUME the passengers should know is not cool to take numbers and then have a fit.
The few times I've gone to non-published locations with dive charters, the captain or crew didn't actually say "do not log the numbers" but there was enough talk about the subject that I knew for sure.
Of course that's just one person's opinion but after seeing the handful of wrecks and constructions trash piles on that area of the gulf, my only motivation was the amazing odds of bringing dinner home if diving a good spot.
I pretty much gave up on that area, the boat is now in the Atlantic side by Pompano, and the abundance of dive sites and options changes the game all together... you always aim for a private spot that is only yours, but being so close to shore it doesn't remain private very long..... with that said, it is fun to explore for the next good dive spot when it is just for privacy not to make a living.
---------- Post added January 11th, 2013 at 08:42 AM ----------
Definitely sounds like a great way to approach the situation, I don't go on fishing charters so don't have a clue of what the operators tell the customers, would be a shame if they ASSUME the passengers should know is not cool to take numbers and then have a fit.
The few times I've gone to non-published locations with dive charters, the captain or crew didn't actually say "do not log the numbers" but there was enough talk about the subject that I knew for sure.
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