Taking GPS coordinates of a site... captain's permission?

[ScubaSteve]

I would like to open this thread up to any and all with GPS numbers of "known to none" or known to a few".

Feel Free to post them here.

I suggest Capt. Frank on the liveaboard vessel the Spree go first. He is a frequent poster here on SB. I'm sure he would agree. Capt. could you post you favorite GPS numbers in the Tortugas? Evidently those that don't have them are entitled.

LAT 25.014790
LON -77.293806

So that you can see the dive site on Google Maps, here it is https://maps.google.ca/?ll=25.01635,-77.295371&spn=0.005201,0.009645&t=h&z=17. I feel like I have helped my fellow divers :SIGH:

 

[vondo]

My first thought on reading this all through is that several captains seem to have very antagonistic relationships with their customers. Assuming that anyone using a GPS is somehow out to screw you is likely not to help you in the long run. As many have pointed out, GPS devices are a dime a dozen and showing up in unexpected places. A much better approach, should you have secrets you want to try to protect, is to explain that to your clients and enlist them in your cause. Someone who wants to screw you is going to screw you; try to limit the number of people who want to screw you and limit the number who might screw you accidentally.

I'm a data-freak. So unless I know the captain prefers otherwise, I have a GPS logger running on my phone. That way I can tag my photos when I get back with the GPS coordinates. I do this if I'm out shooting on land in my backyard too. I have absolutely zero interest in sharing those numbers with another captain so that I can use their boat. I have zero interest in using those numbers to dive those wrecks myself. I'm paying a captain for the time, effort, expertize, and equipment to get me to and from a site safely. I don't have any of those things.

So unless you are an a-hole or dump me in the water and refuse to accept any responsibility (http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/accidents-incidents/394374-close-call-jsonline.html) I'm going to continue to come to you for my diving needs. For me, those numbers are just a push-pin on a map, nothing more.

 

[Ratio]

I'm certainly in the camp which would respect the charter's wishes in regards to using a GPS, but at the same time...

If I told my normal dive buddy to turn off the GPS on her phone and camera, she'd hand them to me to do it--because she's simply not that into technology to be able to do that without consulting a manual. There's a number of people like this that I know who will most likely inadvertently record location data by simply not realizing they're doing it.

As the devil's advocate, my watch has a GPS unit in it. You can pick up key fob GPS devices for less than $30. Thinking that you can prevent people from intentionally logging a site's location without making them get on board naked and use rented gear is... Not realistic anymore.

Also, IRT jammers (if you're in US waters) they're a bit illegal.

 

[gcarter]

Have you ever been told that it is against the rules to take a dump on the deck of the boat? Would you expect to be stopped if you assumed that position and started? IMO, both are within the charter's rights to impose and while it would be nice if they told you ahead of time, sometimes there just are not enough people wanting to perform the action to warrant the preemptive warning. I agree it would be nice but I do not see where the charter will have done anything wrong with stopping you even if they had not pre-warned you. Quite frankly, as long as they approach the issue tactfully (not threatening to throw things over), they only stand to lose "you" (the person being stopped) as a customer only while protecting information which they believe to be key to their success. "You" and maybe your dive buddies is still likely better than having a unique site that is not over run with divers and beat up and tough to moor on is probably better for business than losing a bunch of divers because you now offer nothing unique. I agree that losing the numbers is not likely to ever cause an Op to go under but I can still see the benefit to them for having sites to go to that others do not.

I know it isn't kosher to leave a dump (I don't take them ) in the middle of the street, but I would feel quite free to take a GPS reading there. Not exactly apples and apples.

Unless I am told ahead of time that the dive location is proprietary information, there is no reason to believe it is. NDA's are a common practice in business for a reason. It is too late to ask for one once the information is shared. If the good will is not there, releasing the info without the appropriate caveats and protections is your problem, not your customers.

I suspect a court would agree should a Captain or crew member do something stupid in retaliation for someone taking a reading.

Personally, as stated, I really have no dog in this as I have no interest in logging GPS coordinates. But the things I am reading here say a whole heck of a lot - not all of it good - about the customer service attitudes of some dive ops. That I DO have a dog in. I do not want to be at sea with a hot-headed crew that thinks that they can make up their own rules as they go along or who will threaten me or my property. If it is important enough to enforce, it is important enough to forewarn.

---------- Post added January 9th, 2013 at 06:41 PM ----------

I would like to open this thread up to any and all with GPS numbers of "known to none" or known to a few".

Feel Free to post them here.

I suggest Capt. Frank on the liveaboard vessel the Spree go first. He is a frequent poster here on SB. I'm sure he would agree. Capt. could you post you favorite GPS numbers in the Tortugas? Evidently those that don't have them are entitled.

I seem to have missed the posts where someone said they were entitled.

 

[vladimir]

There clearly are ways that a boat can deal with this if it really is a problem.

they could take the approach that the airlines do on transmitting devices. There policies are well publicized so you should not be surprised by their rules after boarding the plane. And appropriate reminders are then made before the cabin door is closed. And, when all else fails: Alec Baldwin kicked off plane. Are game-playing fliers a safety risk? - CSMonitor.com

And, if that is not enough and your secrets are worth at least $300, there is: GPS Jammer, GPS Jammer Manufacturers & Suppliers -Online Store

Jamming (and jammers) is illegal in the US. From GPS.gov:

Jamming devices are radio frequency transmitters that intentionally block, jam, or interfere with lawful communications, such as cell phone calls, text messages, GPS systems, and Wi-Fi networks.
​

Jammers are illegal to market, sell, or use in the United States.​

A single violation of the jamming prohibition can result in tens of thousands of dollars in monetary penalties, seizure of the illegal device, and imprisonment.​

 

[Reck Diver]

Also, IRT jammers (if you're in US waters) they're a bit illegal.

Jamming would render the boat's GPS inoperative, so that is not an option.



Sunken wreckage of WWII fighter plane found off Miami Beach - Miami-Dade - MiamiHerald.com

I want to send a call out to the guy that found the that found the WWII airplane off Miami a few weeks ago..... Could you post the numbers please. After all we're entitled.

 

[Gombessa]

Could you post the numbers please. After all we're entitled.

I think you're the only one saying that.

 

[gcarter]

I think you're the only one saying that.

Exactly. Somehow he seems to equate a reasonable request to make restrictions known up front (I have not seen anyone here have a problem with that) with a demand that divers are entitled.

Not someone I would care to dive with.

 

[ferris213]

If secrecy is key to a boat's success, and losing that secrecy is a guaranteed death blow to your business,

if this is the case, I would suggest that the dive op has much bigger problems than trying to protect it's dive site locations!

Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner

 

[NAM001]

How did things transition from "whos the captain to tell you what to do with your gear , equipment, phone camrea ect" to "the diver has a sence of entitlement"? The positions are not related so one can not be the arguement for the other. You have boat operators that say yo have to waive any liability on them of you cant board. The boat is a taxi. You cant very well absolve you arlf of any responsibility other than transportation and still demand to control conduct. There are things that are required because of law. Like fishing license and contraband. The captain is enforcing maritine and local statutes. Most everythng else are matters of curtousy. Like the bucket for camera's only. Smoking and many more. Your coopreation is asked on these matters because it is in the intrest of all aboard. I can easily take the position that once i have paid my financial obligation to your revenue has been met. I owe you nothing more. In the spirit of cooperation between owners and divers other REQUESTS are made. In this case the issue of location. No law or statute requires me to comply. The captain can shut the wheel house and i can not go into it. But the captain has no jurisdiction over what i listen to on my walkman or legaly use what the statutes allow me to use. In this case the gps signals that are available to all. I think there is an assumption being presented by the owners that our use of the ocation datta will used to thier detrament. Many people consider these requests a polite way of saying that they are not trust worthy and becomes a personal attack. I understand not only both sides of the argument, but that a situation that normally is not a problem can get out of control till it is believed that all owners are paranoid fruit cakes and that all divers are there to steel the food off of someones table. I dont think either one is true but will agree to accept that there is that 1 percent of both sides that is the EXCEPTION TO THE RULE. Me i will take my lat's and longs probably to the minute not to the part of a second and when i get home i will put another thumb tack in the world map or a dot on the globe.