Switching to BP/W, need wing advice

[RAWalker]

I have a OMS SS Backplate and 45# bungie wing. It can serve fairly well as a singles wing and is rated for both singles and doubles use. I also have a Oxycheq 30# singles wing that is very streamline and I like it very much. So much depends on you and your intended use.
I admittedly go against the popular opinion in my BP&W configuration.
First I believe the deluxe harness to be a better choice for a diver that does boat trips. This is due to the need for a shoulder release in rough waters. To get out of a HOG harness if you can't do the chicken wing you need to dip under and let the rig go over your head. This can be a real hazzard in rough water.
Next I feel that wings with lift capacities under 30# don't have enough benefit in drag or buoyancy characteristics to even be considered. A quality 30# wing like the Oxycheq is streamline and has more lift capacity so drag isn't a consideration.
As for a higher capacity singles wing that would depend on whether the rest of your gear configuration would require it.

 

[cool_hardware52]

I have a OMS SS Backplate and 45# bungie wing. It can serve fairly well as a singles wing and is rated for both singles and doubles use. I also have a Oxycheq 30# singles wing that is very streamline and I like it very much. So much depends on you and your intended use.
I admittedly go against the popular opinion in my BP&W configuration.
First I believe the deluxe harness to be a better choice for a diver that does boat trips. This is due to the need for a shoulder release in rough waters. To get out of a HOG harness if you can't do the chicken wing you need to dip under and let the rig go over your head. This can be a real hazzard in rough water.

The OP is planning on taking GUE fundies, a "delux harness" won't be allowed.

Next I feel that wings with lift capacities under 30# don't have enough benefit in drag or buoyancy characteristics to even be considered.

Have you ever used a smaller wing?

Tobin

 

[Codyjp]

I have a OMS SS Backplate and 45# bungie wing. It can serve fairly well as a singles wing and is rated for both singles and doubles use. I also have a Oxycheq 30# singles wing that is very streamline and I like it very much. So much depends on you and your intended use.
I admittedly go against the popular opinion in my BP&W configuration.
First I believe the deluxe harness to be a better choice for a diver that does boat trips. This is due to the need for a shoulder release in rough waters. To get out of a HOG harness if you can't do the chicken wing you need to dip under and let the rig go over your head. This can be a real hazzard in rough water.
Next I feel that wings with lift capacities under 30# don't have enough benefit in drag or buoyancy characteristics to even be considered. A quality 30# wing like the Oxycheq is streamline and has more lift capacity so drag isn't a consideration.
As for a higher capacity singles wing that would depend on whether the rest of your gear configuration would require it.

Yup, last time I was on a boat with back plate divers 7 of them nearly perished when they got stuck in their gear during lunch. One even suffered from stage 3 sunburn before he was rescued.

Seriously lovin' the last line of your signature.

 

[DevonDiver]

The OP is planning on taking GUE fundies, a "delux harness" won't be allowed.

and the 45lb bungeed wing won't make gain him the 'Best Considered Configuration' award either ...

Have you ever used a smaller wing?

It's the downside of people giving advice, based solely on their own experience in very limited circumstances.

Here in the Philippines, people eat rice for breakfast, lunch and dinner from the day they are weaned. To them, it is culinary excellence. Does that mean rice is the tastiest food in the world?... or does it just mean that Filiinos think it is because of their limited experience with other alternative cuisines?

Opinions are based on perspectives. Perspectives arise from experience. Little experience gives a narrow perspective and tunneled opinions.

 

[DevonDiver]

I have a OMS SS Backplate and 45# bungie wing. It can serve fairly well as a singles wing

Can you specify what you mean by "serve fairly well"?

I could fashion an old vacum cleaner bag to work "fairly well"...

Does it, in your opinion, perform better or worse - with a single cylinder - than a specifically designed single cylinder wing?

I have half a dozen bungeed wings for rental at my center...and we can use them for single cylinder dives if we have to. I never found them to be a preferable option though.

and is rated for both singles and doubles use.

Can you explain this 'rating system'? You're making this up! I've never heard of it...and can't find reference to it anywhere on the OMS website...

What OMS do state is......

"The single tank Sport Diver can take the new the 32 lift BC and combine it with the IQ™ Pack or Continuous Weave harness system (BP-166) to make the perfect Sport diving System. (Fig. 1)"

Ok...32lb bc for single tank....

Technical divers doing shipwreck penetration consistently using doubles usually opt for the S/S or Aluminum Back plate Harness Systems with single shoulder release (BP123-S) or the Comfort harness System (BP133-S) combined with one the OMS® Elastomeric banded BC’s. (Fig. 4)

Ok...and the 45lb or higher bungeed wing for technical/doubles diving...

First I believe the deluxe harness to be a better choice for a diver that does boat trips.

As opposed to the diver who arrives at their dive site by car..or horse..or bicycle?

This is due to the need for a shoulder release in rough waters. To get out of a HOG harness if you can't do the chicken wing you need to dip under and let the rig go over your head. This can be a real hazzard in rough water.

Removing and replacing with a HOG harness is a piece of cake if you have your harness sized and adjusted correctly.

If you are having problems with that, I suggest you seek advice from a suitably experienced instructor in your area.

You may have opted for a comfort harness for other reasons,... but if you got one because you couldn't get out of a HOG harness easily, then you wasted your money on it.

Next I feel that wings with lift capacities under 30# don't have enough benefit in drag or buoyancy characteristics to even be considered. A quality 30# wing like the Oxycheq is streamline and has more lift capacity so drag isn't a consideration.

I am sorry... I don't understand what point you are trying to convey?

Streamline? Drag? Buoyancy Characteristics? Please be specific with the points you are trying to make.

Did you ever use a wing with less than 30lb lift? What facts do you base that recommendation on? Why exactly wouldn't you consider less than 30lbs?

What role do you think wing 'drag' makes to a diver? What relationship do you feel that wing capacity has to drag?

 

[Teamcasa]

I have a steel backplate but not sure which wing I want to commit to. <snip>
So, my question is: If you dive a BP/W, what kind and why? Looking back, would you buy a different wing? I am hoping to get some good advise. The more I research and look at different wings, the more confusing it gets....

Getting back to the original question.

I have a Venture Wing. It is an older 30lb lift version and it does what I want it to do, provide lift when needed. It is very easy to trim and the shape (triangle) does allow the air pocket to provide more lift where I need it, around the waist. I've not experienced any trapping of air but then again, I rarely add a bunch of air in it except on the surface and when I'm cleaning it.

When it expires I intend to replace it with the Deep Sea Supply Torus 35.

 

[RAWalker]

DD you obviously don't get it!
There are choices that some people are comfortable to make for their situation that may not be optimal but are suitable to their needs. You can't just make blanket statements and expect everyone to fit in it. It just doesn't work for many.

As for the OMS 45# bungie wing the attach picture is the label from one.
I think OMS knows a bit more about their wing than you do.
I obviously do also.

You've been aggressively trying to discredit me for weeks now I think you are doing a bang up job of discrediting yourself. You've had a number of SB members try to tell you to change your tone and stop making yourself look bad but you just fail to heed anyones advise.

 

[cool_hardware52]

DD you obviously don't get it!
There are choices that some people are comfortable to make for their situation that may not be optimal but are suitable to their needs.

Why keep preaching sub optimal solutions when better choices exist? Doing so simply serves to confuse. Newbies need simple digestible info, not some litany of how ONE diver makes a bunch of suboptimal goods work "fairly well"

As for the OMS 45# bungie wing the attach picture is the label from one. I think OMS knows a bit more about their wing than you do.

Are you still advocating dual purpose wings as a better solution for a new Back Plate and wing diver?

You may have some burning desire to justify your configuration, but dual purpose wings are truly a tax on the ignorant.

You've been aggressively trying to discredit me for weeks now I think you are doing a bang up job of discrediting yourself. You've had a number of SB members try to tell you to change your tone and stop making yourself look bad but you just fail to heed anyones advise.

Some times people have to step up and face the music and accept that some may find their "tone" too loud, or approach too aggressive. That's the cost of maintaining one's integrity. I for one applaud DevonDiver for his efforts to refute some genuinely awful advise you have been relentless spewing.

I'm sure he'd rather be providing positive advise to those who seek it, but you have seen to it that I and DevonDiver, and others spend lots of time trying undo the misinformation you seem driven to dispense.

As just a short sampling of recent horrors, you have advocated for, in recent weeks:

1) Dual purpose wings as good first choice for the new Back Plate and wing user.

2) That Wings of less than 30 lbs lift are unsafe.

3) Boat divers need complex harnesses.

4 )That divers should train to breath from the gas in their BC during ascents.

1, 2, & 3 will simply cost the new diver money as they discover they really need a dedicated singles wing, that small wings are fine in the right conditions, and a properly fit Hog harness is easy to don and doff.

#4 is just plain unsafe and contrary to the teachings of every agency I know of.

Tobin

 

[Codyjp]

But he does have 50-99 dives and is a DM in training afterall. Maybe he even stayed at a holiday inn!

 

[RAWalker]

Why keep preaching sub optimal solutions when better choices exist? Doing so simply serves to confuse. Newbies need simple digestible info, not some litany of how ONE diver makes a bunch of suboptimal goods work "fairly well"



Are you still advocating dual purpose wings as a better solution for a new Back Plate and wing diver?

You may have some burning desire to justify your configuration, but dual purpose wings are truly a tax on the ignorant.



Some times people have to step up and face the music and accept that some may find their "tone" too loud, or approach too aggressive. That's the cost of maintaining one's integrity. I for one applaud DevonDiver for his efforts to refute some genuinely awful advise you have been relentless spewing.

I'm sure he'd rather be providing positive advise to those who seek it, but you have seen to it that I and DevonDiver, and others spend lots of time trying undo the misinformation you seem driven to dispense.

As just a short sampling of recent horrors, you have advocated for, in recent weeks:

1) Dual purpose wings as good first choice for the new Back Plate and wing user.

2) That Wings of less than 30 lbs lift are unsafe.

3) Boat divers need complex harnesses.

4 )That divers should train to breath from the gas in their BC during ascents.

1, 2, & 3 will simply cost the new diver money as they discover they really need a dedicated singles wing, that small wings are fine in the right conditions, and a properly fit Hog harness is easy to don and doff.

#4 is just plain unsafe and contrary to the teachings of every agency I know of.

Tobin

If you want to quote me as preaching horrors put it into the same context as I did in each case.
1. The dual purpose wing was for a user that wanted to get involved with BP&W spending as little as possible and having the most possible versatility from his rig

2. I never said unsafe I said "I feel that wings with lift capacities under 30# don't have enough benefit in drag or buoyancy characteristics to even be considered. A quality 30# wing like the Oxycheq is streamline and has more lift capacity so drag isn't a consideration."

3. Add in the warning about weather changes and chop in explaining why I prefer a harness with at least 1 shoulder release. (so much more complex)

4. Tell us how it is unsafe on a bladder that you know has been disinfected. I'm not advocating breathing from the bladder that would also be exhaling back into the bladder which would increase the CO2 level and could lead to shallow water blackout. I'm saying it is safe to suck the clean air out of your clean bladder to control ascent instead of taking a regulator out of your mouth during a OOA situation where a diver may already be ask loaded. This is for your own gear when you know the condition!!!
Show me where is it contrary?

So you can join the club with DD if you want to discredit someone use care to do a good job. Not including all the facts or parameters of the situations just discredits you!