Suunto Vyper
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TexasMike
Contributor
Ahhh....Grasshopper....now we understand where your coming from.
The example used by the YMCA instructor was probably intended to make the point of "Pay attention to your time and check against your planned time (if you're diving off of tables) frequently". And IMO, the bit about having to get assistance and additional breathing gas to get out of the predicament could have been left out (aka, not a detail appropriate for brand new divers).
I don't have my PADI tables handy, but if I remember correctly, 40 feet still gives you lots of time underwater. And scootching down to 44 is not the end of the world. Yes the plan had a hard bottom of 40 feet, but being at 44 for a small increment of time compared to the total dive time is not that big of an increase in exposure.
But your example there is also a wonderful example of how a dive computer will benefit you. As you already know, when you are on tables, you plan for a complete square profile. But when we are in the water, we are never completely square. It's the computer that will take over the monitoring of depth and time and present you with it's calculation of how much No Deco Limit (NDL) time you have left.
The big penalty of busting a plan is over staying your planned amount of time, both from a N2 absorbtion view point as well as remaining air.
Hypothetical #1: I'm at 70 fsw and engrossed in taking photos of fish that I don't realize that the current has moved me away from the anchor line. A check of my computer shows that I still have 10 minutes of NDL, but my SPG shows I'm marginal on air to make it back to the line and make a slow safe ascent, and I still have to hump through the current to get to the line. What did I do wrong? I wasn't paying attention to the limiting factor which was air management. NDL was okay, but the SPG was the faster of my "clocks".
Hypothetical #2: I leave the camera on the boat and return to the bottom. This time I stick close to the anchor line and hardly exert myself (air consumption rate way lower than #1). This time the NDL is the governing clock and I need to begin moving shallower before it runs to zero. Yes, my air would allow me to stay longer, but that means busting the NDL's and that is a big no-no of the dive plan.
The deeper you go, the shorter your allowed time, and the more frequently you need check your computer's displayed NDL.
Besides, you're gonna be looking to check your depth anyhow (hey! I'm at 84 fsw! Cool!) and all the computers you are asking about display the current detph and NDL on the same display. So as long as you make sure that NDL clock never reaches zero, you'll be okay.
As far as packing tables, well, you can bring them along. But if you're under no deco restriction and have a good computer, you won't need them.
You got some good questions, but you might be getting ahead of yourself. (Kinda sounds like me not all that long ago
) Talk to your instructor with these questions. They love it when their o/w students come back and want to learn more about diving.
The example used by the YMCA instructor was probably intended to make the point of "Pay attention to your time and check against your planned time (if you're diving off of tables) frequently". And IMO, the bit about having to get assistance and additional breathing gas to get out of the predicament could have been left out (aka, not a detail appropriate for brand new divers).
I don't have my PADI tables handy, but if I remember correctly, 40 feet still gives you lots of time underwater. And scootching down to 44 is not the end of the world. Yes the plan had a hard bottom of 40 feet, but being at 44 for a small increment of time compared to the total dive time is not that big of an increase in exposure.
But your example there is also a wonderful example of how a dive computer will benefit you. As you already know, when you are on tables, you plan for a complete square profile. But when we are in the water, we are never completely square. It's the computer that will take over the monitoring of depth and time and present you with it's calculation of how much No Deco Limit (NDL) time you have left.
The big penalty of busting a plan is over staying your planned amount of time, both from a N2 absorbtion view point as well as remaining air.
Hypothetical #1: I'm at 70 fsw and engrossed in taking photos of fish that I don't realize that the current has moved me away from the anchor line. A check of my computer shows that I still have 10 minutes of NDL, but my SPG shows I'm marginal on air to make it back to the line and make a slow safe ascent, and I still have to hump through the current to get to the line. What did I do wrong? I wasn't paying attention to the limiting factor which was air management. NDL was okay, but the SPG was the faster of my "clocks".
Hypothetical #2: I leave the camera on the boat and return to the bottom. This time I stick close to the anchor line and hardly exert myself (air consumption rate way lower than #1). This time the NDL is the governing clock and I need to begin moving shallower before it runs to zero. Yes, my air would allow me to stay longer, but that means busting the NDL's and that is a big no-no of the dive plan.
The deeper you go, the shorter your allowed time, and the more frequently you need check your computer's displayed NDL.
Besides, you're gonna be looking to check your depth anyhow (hey! I'm at 84 fsw! Cool!) and all the computers you are asking about display the current detph and NDL on the same display. So as long as you make sure that NDL clock never reaches zero, you'll be okay.
As far as packing tables, well, you can bring them along. But if you're under no deco restriction and have a good computer, you won't need them.
You got some good questions, but you might be getting ahead of yourself. (Kinda sounds like me not all that long ago
) Talk to your instructor with these questions. They love it when their o/w students come back and want to learn more about diving.Well,
I'm the kind of person, when I decide to get into something, I am curious about the WHY'S and HOW'S and want to learn as much as I can about everything!
"A mind is a terrible thing to waste!"
One might think that I am asking these questions because I think I'm ready for deco dives..I'm not, and I know it. But I'd sure liek to know more about how it all works!
I'm the kind of person, when I decide to get into something, I am curious about the WHY'S and HOW'S and want to learn as much as I can about everything!
"A mind is a terrible thing to waste!"
One might think that I am asking these questions because I think I'm ready for deco dives..I'm not, and I know it. But I'd sure liek to know more about how it all works!
TexasMike
Contributor
Like I said....you sound a lot like me.
-BlueHole-
Guest
After using an Aladin Pro ,I've decided to buy a SmartCom, but gave me problems (It blocked after 1 dive...), so now I am looking 4 a nother model...
The Vytec seems to have all I need, nitrox, optional air integration, and most important of all 3 in dive switchable gasses
Have you ever had troubles with it ? can you advice it to me ?
jamespitt
Guest
446,
i have the vyper and like it alot, although get continually ribbed by a uwatec lover. i have done intentional deco on it and turned out fine and turned out fine and turned out fine.
we did a 54m wreck dive (18m Bottom Time) on tables/computers and the computer cleared before the tables on all stops except the 3m stop. the suuntos are generally more conservative computers.
if you accidentally exceed yr NDL, the 'puter beeps and gives u a ceiling and acsend time. then u go "sh!t" and start to ascend. generally the deco obligation clears even before you reach your ceiling because suuntos continuous decompression. so at a certain depth, you start decompressing & it clears well before you reach your safety stop/ceiling.
one thing is that although it has an audible alarm, i cannot hear mine (i do wear a hood). it is very faint and you cant make it louder. i struggle to hear it even when i dont wear a hood.
i find it easy to use, with an intuitive menu system.
i got mine for a bargain basement price of $230 (from indonesia).
cheers,
James
ps. (if dlarbale reads this) - it also looks much cooler than the 80's retro uwatec...
i have the vyper and like it alot, although get continually ribbed by a uwatec lover. i have done intentional deco on it and turned out fine and turned out fine and turned out fine.
we did a 54m wreck dive (18m Bottom Time) on tables/computers and the computer cleared before the tables on all stops except the 3m stop. the suuntos are generally more conservative computers.
if you accidentally exceed yr NDL, the 'puter beeps and gives u a ceiling and acsend time. then u go "sh!t" and start to ascend. generally the deco obligation clears even before you reach your ceiling because suuntos continuous decompression. so at a certain depth, you start decompressing & it clears well before you reach your safety stop/ceiling.
one thing is that although it has an audible alarm, i cannot hear mine (i do wear a hood). it is very faint and you cant make it louder. i struggle to hear it even when i dont wear a hood.
i find it easy to use, with an intuitive menu system.
i got mine for a bargain basement price of $230 (from indonesia).
cheers,
James
ps. (if dlarbale reads this) - it also looks much cooler than the 80's retro uwatec...
dlarbale
Contributor
OK I was going to stay out of this but Mr Pitt decided to bait me so here goes....
If you want a computer that shows you all the information that you need in one easy to read screen without needing a magnifying glass then go for a 80's retro looking Uwatec.
If on the other hand you intend to wear your computer into the local bar then perhaps the smaller Suunto computer is the way to go:
"Yeah that's right luv I'm a diver, how d'ya guess......oh the bloody computer on my wrist forgot all about that, yeah it does everything it's even got a fancy light - lets go somewhere dark and I'll show you how this small peice of equipment works!."
James - you forgot to mention the extended decompression stop we did on the 52m dive when you'd borrowed someones computer and forgot to tell me they'd used it already that morning!! You also forgot to mention that I taught you everything you know and that it was only the $ flow that resulted in you getting the Suunto!!!!!!!
Hell this is fun - any more points you'd like to make, I've got a whole heap of stories about ya to keep the folks amused!
Later - Dave.
If you want a computer that shows you all the information that you need in one easy to read screen without needing a magnifying glass then go for a 80's retro looking Uwatec.
If on the other hand you intend to wear your computer into the local bar then perhaps the smaller Suunto computer is the way to go:
"Yeah that's right luv I'm a diver, how d'ya guess......oh the bloody computer on my wrist forgot all about that, yeah it does everything it's even got a fancy light - lets go somewhere dark and I'll show you how this small peice of equipment works!."
James - you forgot to mention the extended decompression stop we did on the 52m dive when you'd borrowed someones computer and forgot to tell me they'd used it already that morning!! You also forgot to mention that I taught you everything you know and that it was only the $ flow that resulted in you getting the Suunto!!!!!!!
Hell this is fun - any more points you'd like to make, I've got a whole heap of stories about ya to keep the folks amused!
Later - Dave.
jamespitt
Guest
yes thanks dave for your insight. perhaps u should get back to work or work out more ways to rib Suunto users.
i believe u even sent me a link to the suunto vytec recall, but didnt once mention the uwatec recall. here it is, if u missed it:
http://www.cpsc.gov/cpscpub/prerel/prhtml02/02205.html
thats right the computer did do a 36m dive in the morning... forgot about that. nothing like having a great dive briefing to clear up any confusion! but thanks for staying down there with me anyway. this guy cares so much...
still have to send u the photos of u and your double tanks...
if anyone needs some magnifying glasses then dlarbale can help u out. he doestnt need them anymore after his lengthening operation (weak i know but i had to come up with something...)
peace.
James
i believe u even sent me a link to the suunto vytec recall, but didnt once mention the uwatec recall. here it is, if u missed it:
http://www.cpsc.gov/cpscpub/prerel/prhtml02/02205.html
thats right the computer did do a 36m dive in the morning... forgot about that. nothing like having a great dive briefing to clear up any confusion! but thanks for staying down there with me anyway. this guy cares so much...
still have to send u the photos of u and your double tanks...
if anyone needs some magnifying glasses then dlarbale can help u out. he doestnt need them anymore after his lengthening operation (weak i know but i had to come up with something...)
peace.
James
raviepoo
Contributor
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I have both. The Vyper is my primary computer and the Mosquito is my backup.
I like the Vyper better. It's easier to use. The menus are more intuitive. The face is easier to read. The default screen provides more information (such as water temperature and ascent rate) during the dive. If you buy the wrist model you have the option of popping it into a console in the future. The documentation is clear and easy to follow. It's even fairly easy to replace the battery yourself if you are brave and can read and follow directions.
The size of the Mosquito is quite attractive but after using both for about 100 dives I greatly prefer the Vyper.
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