It has to do with the type of wave as I understand it. These areas have seen large waves -- you must also remember the tide shift there is, oh, 14' in a day... so it's not about height as it is power and energy.fishb0y:
Superferry in Drydock, in Mobile
- Thread starter Cacia
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What nonsense. Waves are power and energy, the bigger, the more they have. Funny, in Homer we have ferries and 33 foot tides, yet no problems. Hummm?
Just another outsider sticking there nose in where it does not belong.
Isn't your green card about expired?
Just another outsider sticking there nose in where it does not belong.
Isn't your green card about expired?
Wildcard... there are lots of ferries around BC, too. It's only the "SuperCats" that have caused *any* problems.Wildcard:
It's awefully strange to hear that sort of talk from another haole... you sure you're not native Hawaiian?
You see, I'm hardly sticking my nose in anywhere -- I really don't care about the ferries... I might use it, but given the costs, probably not.
Besides that, all you need to know about my status here is that I'm legal (in fact, you don't *need* to know that either). Visa, Green Card, that's not your concern.
I wonder if the ferries would do more shoreline damage than the cruise ships; and I'm not aware that they are doing any damage at all. The ferries are faster but smaller.
According to this study:
http://www.state.nj.us/transportati...uments/Wake_Impacts_StevensPublishedPaper.pdf
"Our analysis indicates that the wakes produced by high-speed ferry vessels differ in many important respects from wakes
produced by more slowly moving vessels. The most damaging wakes, in terms of height, occur at low speeds, particularly during the transition from low-speed displacement mode to planing mode, and during certain turning maneuvers"
This link seems to corroborate that finding -- with max wake measurements on a large high speed ferry of 1.5M during transition speed --- but only 0.7M (about 2 feet) at normal operating speed:
http://www2.dmu.dk/1_viden/2_Publikationer/3_fagrapporter/abstrakter/abs_451_UK.asp
I have heard opinions. But what scientific evidence exists that THIS ferry will destroy the coastline?
Hawaii is used to some pretty high natural surge anyway - a MUCH different place than the protected waters of many west coast coves and sounds or the Hudson River. Typical damage there is limited to narrow channels - protected waters - not the open ocean:
http://www.hagens-berman.com/fronte...sk=viewPressReleaseDetail&iPressReleaseId=166
As for invasive species - what's to prevent insects and the like from travelling in the cars and containers on barges that regularly ply the waters right now? Should we just stop all traffic between the islands?
Mark
According to this study:
http://www.state.nj.us/transportati...uments/Wake_Impacts_StevensPublishedPaper.pdf
"Our analysis indicates that the wakes produced by high-speed ferry vessels differ in many important respects from wakes
produced by more slowly moving vessels. The most damaging wakes, in terms of height, occur at low speeds, particularly during the transition from low-speed displacement mode to planing mode, and during certain turning maneuvers"
This link seems to corroborate that finding -- with max wake measurements on a large high speed ferry of 1.5M during transition speed --- but only 0.7M (about 2 feet) at normal operating speed:
http://www2.dmu.dk/1_viden/2_Publikationer/3_fagrapporter/abstrakter/abs_451_UK.asp
I have heard opinions. But what scientific evidence exists that THIS ferry will destroy the coastline?
Hawaii is used to some pretty high natural surge anyway - a MUCH different place than the protected waters of many west coast coves and sounds or the Hudson River. Typical damage there is limited to narrow channels - protected waters - not the open ocean:
http://www.hagens-berman.com/fronte...sk=viewPressReleaseDetail&iPressReleaseId=166
As for invasive species - what's to prevent insects and the like from travelling in the cars and containers on barges that regularly ply the waters right now? Should we just stop all traffic between the islands?
Mark
Let's compare the vessels. PacifiCats - 122.5m, 250 cars, 1000 passengers, 37 knot service speed. Superferry - 107m, 282 cars, 866 passengers, 35 knots. So similar that Pacificats were used as examples in the initial propoganda for this project. KrisB's post was a legitimate contribution to this issue and he is entitled to his opinion. PacifiCats were floated in '98, '99 and '00 at a cost of $460 million, auctioned off in '03 for $19.4 million and have collected slime ever since.
Honolulu Harbor is large enough to accomodate these new vessels with minimal impact but the outer Island harbors will be signifigantly impacted with Hawaii State tax payers footing the bills and outer island residents and visitors shouldering the burdens. I for one am not interested in taking my car to Oahu for a week and am even less interested in Oahu's banana hammock attitudes sleeping in their vehicles in our beach parks.
The Maui route shown on the Superferry site is right across Penguine Bank, which has the highest concentration of whales in the State the entire time they are here. If Superferries are forced to follow speed rules around whales in Sanctuary waters (14 knots?) it will be way longer than a 3hr trip. If they maintain 35 knots in Jan/Feb/Mar there will be injuries. Other than the fact that the State of Hawaii is wasting a lot of our budget on this and giving huge tax breaks to the operator I will not be sad when this project gets mothballed.
Honolulu Harbor is large enough to accomodate these new vessels with minimal impact but the outer Island harbors will be signifigantly impacted with Hawaii State tax payers footing the bills and outer island residents and visitors shouldering the burdens. I for one am not interested in taking my car to Oahu for a week and am even less interested in Oahu's banana hammock attitudes sleeping in their vehicles in our beach parks.
The Maui route shown on the Superferry site is right across Penguine Bank, which has the highest concentration of whales in the State the entire time they are here. If Superferries are forced to follow speed rules around whales in Sanctuary waters (14 knots?) it will be way longer than a 3hr trip. If they maintain 35 knots in Jan/Feb/Mar there will be injuries. Other than the fact that the State of Hawaii is wasting a lot of our budget on this and giving huge tax breaks to the operator I will not be sad when this project gets mothballed.
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