Suit filed in case of "Girl dead, boy injured at Glacier National Park

[Omisson]

It is comical how you projecting your agenda. I'm done. Time to get out of the mud.

Dude, you need a reality check.

First You said in a post at 1:15 PM

OK, seriously, she was an instructor and it was her responsibility to know and follow the standards. Gull also as her employer. To your point regards student, I tend to somewhat agree. There is a LOT of information in e-learning, how well it is tested is a whole other discussion is it not? Then the instructor saying "do this" or "this is fine" to a student can over ride what they learned in materials. Human nature and all

Yes agreed on that. She did her training in Rainbow Reef in Florida and then returned to Montana. Now this is a single incident, but it shows she had no idea as to run a class in the mountains of Montana (3000 feet) in winter. I would be more than willing to bet she wasn't trained to teach in those conditions. There's of course a lot of common sense thrown out the window. The owners of the dive center baffle me as well.

then at 1:18 PM in another post you said:

So you are saying snow didn’t have access to the standards? BS.

Please post where I said she didn't have access, thank you.

after saying previously Today at 12:49 PM

if PADI standards were followed by snow- Mills would be alive. If Mills followed her training and rules she was taught- she would be alive.

This is an assumption that Snow knew the standards. You are making gross assumptions about Mills training and what she was taught.


so - yea…Clown. Lying Clown.

 

[pauldw]

I was trying to catch up on this thread, but it became too annoying as the pissing contest spun on over so many pages. Come on, kids!

It seems to me that PADI ought to have in their main offices, back out of public view but where all employees have to see it, an enlargement of the picture of Linnea Mills dropping backward into the dark, helpless and dying. Might be a lesson there they should make sure everyone in or related to the organization could remind themselves of every day.

 

[Omisson]

I was trying to catch up on this thread, but it became too annoying as the pissing contest spun on over so many pages. Come on, kids!

It seems to me that PADI ought to have in their main offices, back out of public view but where all employees have to see it, an enlargement of the picture of Linnea Mills dropping backward into the dark, helpless and dying. Might be a lesson there they should make sure everyone in or related to the organization could remind themselves of every day.

Well that’s certainly not helpful. Again- what exactly is it that PADI did wrong in its standards or teaching materials?

And maybe the mayor of Chicago should line her office with the photos of more than 2000 dead (from gang violence) each year as a reminder that guns are randomly walking the streets killing people…

 

[pauldw]

Well that’s certainly not helpful. Again- what exactly is it that PADI did wrong in its standards or teaching materials?

And maybe the mayor of Chicago should line her office with the photos of more than 2000 dead (from gang violence) each year as a reminder that guns are randomly walking the streets killing people…

I did not say that PADI did anything wrong. I said they should use this incident as a motivator and opportunity to improve safety. Perhaps there was an implication, and I'd say that if the bootie fits, wear it. Otherwise, try to find its owner.

"[O]r related to" includes most dive shops and instructors, not just PADI as a business entity. So that statement works even if you don't believe that PADI is responsible for what happens when people are, as someone local to me recently said (no doubt to the delight of the organization), "getting their PADI." This awful event is a lesson everyone involved in diver training should be thinking about, and since PADI is the leader in America, PADI ought to be thinking about it. Along with every other agency. Perhaps a photo will help stimulate some thought.

Frankly, it isn't an exception to the norm when an agency's instructors (excuse me, instructors with no ties to an agency except for the giant posters on the wall, the book, the checklists, the card, etc.) pencil whip people through agency courses (excuse me, completely privately taught and independent courses). That has happened to me in many courses, almost without exception. At any rate, again, even if PADI isn't liable for this incident, there's still at least that pencil whipping issue that it should help them think about using their influence to change, and maybe they could think more broadly about ways to improve. However, in my experience in multiple states, dive shops are often run, and dive training is often done, in a half assed manner. Perhaps it can only be done that way, what with everything at the local level being on a shoestring.

About your analogy, yeah, I think Mayor Lightfoot actually should do that. Because it might remind her to stop doing some of the inane things she's doing, and keep her focus on the lives of her voters. But remember that Linnea Mills wasn't killed by some inanimate object roaming around on its own. She was apparently killed by instructors and dive shop personnel. Ironically, the only person who did anything right by her was the student who risked his life to try to save her. God bless Bob Gentry.

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

so - yea…Clown. Lying Clown.

Wait, what? Says the guy convicted of bribery and disbarred from practicing is calling me a clown? You are that guy right? Or do I have the wrong person? At least I've never been to prison. I've never spent a night in jail. I do have a few traffic and parking infractions, but speed limits and coming to a full stop at a stop sign when no one else is around are BS is something we can all agree. I don't think I need to comment further.

 

[BRT]

Just throwing something out there, because...well

General Aviation Revitalization Act - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The only reason that there are new private planes being built and sold. And too much liability for instructors and agencies will do for new divers and equipment sales what the liability did for private aviation before this law.

 

[pauldw]

...but speed limits and coming to a full stop at a stop sign when no one else is around are BS is something we can all agree.

I thought about speeding once. But I just held to the limit, and told the guy bleeding in the back seat to try to bleed slower.

 

[Omisson]

I did not say that PADI did anything wrong. I said they should use this incident as a motivator and opportunity to improve safety. Perhaps there was an implication, and I'd say that if the bootie fits, wear it. Otherwise, try to find its owner.

"[O]r related to" includes most dive shops and instructors, not just PADI as a business entity. So that statement works even if you don't believe that PADI is responsible for what happens when people are, as someone local to me recently said (no doubt to the delight of the organization), "getting their PADI." This awful event is a lesson everyone involved in diver training should be thinking about, and since PADI is the leader in America, PADI ought to be thinking about it. Along with every other agency. Perhaps a photo will help stimulate some thought.

Wow you really go hard at misdirection-

I notice how you selectively edited out the text you claim applies to “not just PADI”…

Alas- not true you are attempting- to change what you said:


“It seems to me that PADI ought to have in their main offices, back out of public view but where all employees have to see it, an enlargement of the picture of Linnea Mills dropping backward into the dark, helpless and dying. Might be a lesson there they should make sure everyone in or related to the organization could remind themselves of every day.”

so first you squarely said it was PADI that needed to do this and then ended it with “everyone in or related to the organization” - you weren’t talking about the dive industry or other dive shops- you specifically targeted the PADI organization- or is there some other mystery scuba “organization” you didnt mention ANYWHERE else but REALLY were referring to?

Its really transparent how disingenuous a lot of you are in both your arguments and your self-evident belief that the rest of us didn’t read what you actually said….

All that being said- I agree on the Lightfoot issue- she has a sham administration that is literally killing Chicago and every day she gets up and lies to the press about it…

I guess people believe what they want - regardlesss of the facts…. go figure…

 

[Omisson]

Wait, what? Says the guy convicted of bribery and disbarred from practicing is calling me a clown? You are that guy right? Or do I have the wrong person? At least I've never been to prison. I've never spent a night in jail. I do have a few traffic and parking infractions, but speed limits and coming to a full stop at a stop sign when no one else is around are BS is something we can all agree. I don't think I need to comment further.

There it is- the last refuge of the losing argument- the ad hominem attack. Thanks for proving the point that all your arguments use irrelevant points to make the misdirection easier to swallow. I am surprised it took that long before you trotted that out.

keep showing why you can’t make a cogent argument- because when in doubt attack the messenger not the message…

 

[Omisson]

The only reason that there are new private planes being built and sold. And too much liability for instructors and agencies will do for new divers and equipment sales what the liability did for private aviation before this law.

It’s a crazy industry - aviation with more trouble than diving- and less good solutions…