Suit filed in case of "Girl dead, boy injured at Glacier National Park

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To be fair, the investigators should/could have seized them when they interviewed Snow 5 days(?) after the incident.

Indeed. The level of wtf in the investigation process is my biggest general concern with the whole thing.

I feel awful for the Mills family, of course, but if this one specific incident puts one person in jail is much less of a concern to me than if things are being conducted in such a way that crimes are not investigated properly. It doesn’t take much mishandling of evidence to undermine a case and maybe the next case will be someone who was genuinely acting maliciously with intent to harm/kill. Or maybe a pattern of issues will be missed across multiple cases that could inform a safety change, because the investigators don’t know to recognize the problem recurring and document it.
 
Or maybe a pattern of issues will be missed across multiple cases that could inform a safety change, because the investigators don’t know to recognize the problem recurring and document it.

This is the issue that organizations like PADI will care about. I suspect their investigations (to the extent they do them) are better because if there's a problem with standards, they want to change them.
 
A PADI representative was responsible for removing moving the dive computers to another state?

Lawyers kept the computers away from the investigators?
An investigator sent to Montana by PADI’s insurer and/or an attorney who regularly works for PADI and PADI IDCs (and who was already representing Gull) collected the computers worn by Snow, Liston and Linnea in November 2020 and brought them to the attorney in California. Then, in early January 2021, the computers were downloaded by Christian McDonald at Scripps and the profiles were given to the attorney.

None of this information was provided to the ISB investigators.

In fact, none of this was revealed until July 2022, even though the production of the computers had been requested by the plaintiffs for many, many months. Additionally, the dive computers were not brought to the equipment inspection conducted by all parties and their experts at Glacier National Park on August 4, 2022. The profiles of the fatal dive were produced, but not the profiles of the earlier dives. We were never given the computers to download.
 
An investigator sent to Montana by PADI’s insurer and/or an attorney who regularly works for PADI and PADI IDCs (and who was already representing Gull) collected the computers worn by Snow, Liston and Linnea in November 2020 and brought them to the attorney in California. Then, in early January 2021, the computers were downloaded by Christian McDonald at Scripps and the profiles were given to the attorney.

None of this information was provided to the ISB investigators.

In fact, none of this was revealed until July 2022, even though the production of the computers had been requested by the plaintiffs for many, many months. Additionally, the dive computers were not brought to the equipment inspection conducted by all parties and their experts at Glacier National Park on August 4, 2022. The profiles of the fatal dive were produced, but not the profiles of the earlier dives. We were never given the computers to download.

How is this acceptable evidence handling? I am so confused by this.
 
Here you go. In their own words.
 

Attachments

  • July 27 2022 Int 37 Answer.pdf
    187.9 KB · Views: 180
  • Williams Response to Perry 7-27-22 c.pdf
    116.2 KB · Views: 130

25 CFR § 11.440 - Tampering with or fabricating physical evidence.​

§ 11.440 Tampering with or fabricating physical evidence.
A person commits a misdemeanor if, believing that an official proceeding or investigation is pending or about to be instituted, he or she:

(a) Alters, destroys, conceals, or removes any record, document or thing with purpose to impair its verity or availability in such proceeding or investigation; or

(b) Makes, presents or uses any record, document or thing knowing it to be false and with the purpose to mislead a public servant who is or may be engaged in such proceeding or investigation.

Also:

A person commits the federal crime of tampering with evidence when he or she knowingly alters, conceals, falsifies, or destroys any record, document, or tangible object with the intent to interfere with an investigation, possible investigation, or other proceedings by the federal government. 18 U.S.C. § 1519.

A person who is convicted of the crime under federal law may face a prison sentence of not more than 20 years, a fine, or both. 18 U.S.C. § 1519.
 
@Subfiend, I wonder if you could lay out how you think things SHOULD be handled in the case of an accident? I've written emergency plans both for work and as part of DM certification but those and my training stop with "securing the gear."

Here's what I imagine I'd do. Not saying it's the right thing, but off the cuff how I'd handle the situation if I were the instructor in a serious incident.

1. Secure all gear on site, leaving air on until all victims were off the beach or I am no longer controlling the scene or needed to assist them.

2. Have a witness verify (or videotape) the SPG reading on the tank, then turn off the air and transport the gear intact back to my LDS. If university-related diving, well, I personally secure this gear and do with it as I see fit.

3. My LDS (based on experience with a medical emergency) would test the air in the tank and test the regulator function. They'd presumably do a quick check on the BCD to make sure it's functional, unless the BCD was thought to be contributory in which case they might tear it down and evaluate it. Depending on details, they might download data from the dive computer. (In the case of my diver with IPE, depth and time weren't factors and I don't think they did beyond checking to see that depth and time matched my story.) Until there's a good reason not to, this seems like due diligence on their part.

For the sake of argument, let's say there's a fatality (or serious, potentially litigable injury) but no government entity secures the gear. What SHOULD be done with it? I guess I'd assumed in a bad accident SOMEBODY with authority would haul it away. But having seen emergency response to an IPE case, I realized that our firefighters are wonderful humans but admittedly inept with diving situations so that might not happen. If the victim isn't dead on the beach, I doubt police would even show up. (In the case of a missing diver later found dead, police would be all over it.)

With respect, if an investigator or attorney hired by the victim wanted to claim it, I'd decline barring a court order or direction from my own counsel to do provide it to them. I wouldn't hide it from them and would be happy to let them know who had possession if I didn't. If my LDS, my attorney, the university I teach SCUBA for, or insurance carrier wanted to claim it, I'd probably agree. (For most equipment issues, the fault would be the shop's or the victim's and not mine. On the computer, I'd trust the manager to download the data.) But what if it was the victim's personal gear? I don't really have a right to keep it, but I can guarantee I'd want to analyze it to the best of my ability and ideally have somebody independent analyze it before returning it.

If the victim's investigator and I could agree on a third party to receive it, that seems like an ideal solution. I wouldn't be trying to hide the truth so much as to make sure there's an honest assessment of the equipment. Alternatively, if the investigator wanted to analyze the equipment in my presence while I videotape what is being done, sure, no problem.

I'll add as a caveat that I am not seeking legal advice and will not rely on anything any attorney says in response to this on SCUBABOARD as constituting legal advice. What I'm after is "what's the morally right and careful thing to do?"

Mods: This might be better suited to a new thread. Ideally in a place accessible to @Subfiend and others interested in the topic.
 
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