Suit filed in case of "Girl dead, boy injured at Glacier National Park

[tursiops]

Your comments also point out ANOTHER likely standards violation by Snow: The incident report wasn't filed in a timely manner. The standard is that the report be filed "immediately." Again, I can't put my finger on it, but I'm pretty sure I'm recalling immediately being "the same day." A week later isn't good enough.

PADI never defines "immediately" in the Instructor Manual or the Training Bulletins.

 

[Seaweed Doc]

PADI never defines "immediately" in the Instructor Manual or the Training Bulletins.

Agreed. That's why I couldn't put my finger on it. But I suppose I presume that if it was longer than "as soon as you get home from the dive site" they'd have said something like "within 24 hours" or "within 7 days" as they do for other more mundane processes. Thankfully I've only filed an incident report once (medical emergency, student was fine 24 hours later) and felt obligated to do it the same day once I read "immediately" in the standards.

If all else fails, the dictionary definition of immediately means "right now" not "when you get around to it a week later."

With fatalities in particular, I think the intent at least would be "before you lead divers again" since fatalities result in "immediate" suspension.

 

[Subfiend]

Thanks for all the interaction: It's giving us all an inside look that we don't usually see. At risk of annoying you with more questions, would you be able to respond to a couple more?

1. I'm guessing that in civil trials generally, or perhaps just in this case, the judge won't sever the trial for the defendants? That is try PADI separately from Snow et al.. If not, if you were defending in a case like this would you see defendants generally maintaining a united front of sorts, at least not creating unnecessary animosity amongst themselves until the trial was settled?

2. Can you share anything more about the 7 certifications issued and withdrawn? Who was the instructor of record? (For non-instructors: At some point an individual instructor has to "sign off" on the certification; the "dive shop" can't be the instructor of record though a shop employee that's not an instructor could process the certification.) If this was Snow that was the instructor of record then PADI has a big problem: Once the incident was reported the automated systems shouldn't have allowed her to certify anybody.

1. Civil cases are subject to the “same case and controversy” rule. All claims against all parties must be brought in the same case to promote efficient use of judicial resources.

Each case is different. I generally don’t point fingers at other defendants, unless they shoot at me first. If they do, I shoot back, and I don’t miss.

2. Snow was the instructor of record.

I have reason to believe somebody affiliated with PADI knew about the incident within a few hours and they were quite active in formulating a response. PADI was formally notified three or four days later, and conversations ensued. The actual incident report was submitted to PADI on November 10 or 11, 2020.

Snow was interviewed by the ISB on November 18, 2020 and she gave them a copy of the incident report. An investigator affiliated with PADI came to Missoula and interviewed Snow and the other dive shop employees around November 17 or 18, 2020. He took possession of three dive computers (Linnea, Snow and Liston) and delivered them to a lawyer in California who normally represents PADI and PADI members.

The certifications were issued by PADI on November 24, 2020.

 

[Subfiend]

I have seen PADI expel a member in as little as eight days without doing any investigation.

 

[Seaweed Doc]

I have seen PADI expel a member in as little as eight days without doing any investigation.

US based? In relation to a dive accident? I'm fishing for reasons why this one took so long....

 

[Subfiend]

US based? In relation to a dive accident? I'm fishing for reasons why this one took so long....

Yes and yes. A fatality.

 

[L13]

...
An investigator affiliated with PADI came to Missoula and interviewed Snow and the other dive shop employees around November 17 or 18, 2020. He took possession of three dive computers (Linnea, Snow and Liston) and delivered them to a lawyer in California who normally represents PADI and PADI members.

A PADI representative was responsible for removing moving the dive computers to another state?

Lawyers kept the computers away from the investigators?

 

[Seaweed Doc]

A PADI representative was responsible for removing moving the dive computers to another state?

Lawyers kept the computers away from the investigators?

I'm not sure it's quite that nefarious. I don't think investigators were smart enough to ask and from what @Subfiend reports wouldn't have known what to do with them once they had them.

Moreover, I have a high enough opinion of attorneys and a low enough opinion of Snow that I think the computers were safer there than in her hands. She had little to lose by messing with them, attorneys have a lot to lose if they mess with evidence.

 

[PirateFoxy]

I'm not sure it's quite that nefarious. I don't think investigators were smart enough to ask and from what @Subfiend reports wouldn't have known what to do with them once they had them.

Moreover, I have a high enough opinion of attorneys and a low enough opinion of Snow that I think the computers were safer there than in her hands. She had little to lose by messing with them, attorneys have a lot to lose if they mess with evidence.

They should have been with the investigators, though, not with Snow or the attorneys. That they were not is concerning.

 

[VikingDives]

To be fair, the investigators should/could have seized them when they interviewed Snow 5 days(?) after the incident.