Suit filed in case of "Girl dead, boy injured at Glacier National Park

[inquis]

With no experience in those conditions. That's a standards fail.

It's also an instructor fail to not recognize that certified at X does not necessarily mean qualified for Y.

 

[Manatee Diver]

Why Snow went to Florida instead of an IDC/IE in Seattle is something I do not know.

Because Rainbow Reef runs IDCs at least once a month. How often do they run IDCs in Seattle?

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

Because Rainbow Reef runs IDCs at least once a month. How often do they run IDCs in Seattle?

I can't say as there are a number of CD's at different shops. IE's (when I had mine) was twice a year.

 

[Seaweed Doc]

Because Rainbow Reef runs IDCs at least once a month. How often do they run IDCs in Seattle?

Roughly twice a year. That's why I went tropical for an IDC: My work schedule conflicted with IDC/IE dates in Seattle.
Could do LA, and it'd be cold water diving, but the cost of housing in LA (or Hawaii) is high. Some IDC courses include cheap housing in the price.

 

[VikingDives]

I have see course directors I wouldn't get in the water with.

^^ This. My CD was one.

As well as dms and instructors that went through programs based on getting their money and getting them through fast before the next group of suckers arrive.

I am this instructor.

Just because an instructor doesn't teach a lot of people in a year, doesn't mean they get rusty.

True. When I ran "puppy mill" classes, I was a master at demo'ing all the basic skills. Today, I make the occasional mistake because I don't do it every week. When I screw something up, I do what I did when I was an AI, I point my students at the surface, admit my faults, and I go back and show them what to do.

My ow course was 6 to 8 weeks. 12-16 hours in the pool and in the classroom. That was the way I was taught to do it as a YMCA instructor.
Rescue skills, gas management, neutral and horizontal skills, and a few other things I didn't get as a diver until dm level.
I would never subject a student to all they had to do in my class over a weekend in the pool. Just way too much to absorb and be proficient at. Just getting through the skills one or two times is rarely sufficient.

Part of my OW class (about 12 hours of classroom, 8 hours of pool and 5 OW dives) is spent telling my students what I'm NOT teaching them. I'm not teaching anything about nav in that class, for example (the previous is an example from my SDI OWSD class... If I teach PADI OWD, I teach to standards. But it's funny, no one seems to want my PADI cookie cutter classes these days).

And even in a heated pool, more than 2 hours and the student tends to get tired, cold, and miserable.
At that point they are parroting skills. Not demonstrating an understanding of them and doing them by instinct because they have actually learned them.

I don't find that 2 hours is the limit unless you keep them in the water. 2 hours does seem to be about the limit for a "pool dive" though. If you bounce them out of the water and make them do something on the surface, you can get to 4 hours (of total "pool time") before they really start to get burnt out.

If you have multiple students its worse.
If an instructor can't look at a new ow student immediately after the last checkout dive and say I'm ok with you to take my kid diving next weekend that is also ow certified and no professional will be present, they have no business handing them a card. That's actually a requirement for some agencies and is what the rstc standard says the new diver should be capable of.

Preach on my Brother!

Then the stuff hits the fan and they are lost because the 7-10 day IDC in ideal conditions

I wish I'd had an IDC that was that long. If you count travel time, it was maybe 4 days.

There's no re-certification that is going to fix bad CDs or bad instructors. I reported a PADI instructor last year who'd been using other instructors' numbers to certify students. I and others sent PADI video evidence of the "instructor" teaching while he was not a member, and while he was suspended, due to the QA investigation.

The result of the said investigation? Not a damn thing. That clown is still an instructor. There was more unethical behavior to boot, but PADI did nothing.

There's only one answer and it's government regulation. I'm certainly in the NOT A FAN category, but here in New Mexico, you have to have a state license to cut hair, to be a respiratory tech, or count pills behind the counter at a pharmacy. If there's a compelling state interest in the quality of your hair is cut, how have we made it to 2023 without one country deciding that there's a compelling state interest in the quality of your dive instructor?

I don't know how many people barbers and cosmeticians kill every year, but I'd guess that bad scuba instructors have killed far more.

I can't envision this ever happening unless Florida takes the initiative. FL has the biggest "iron in the fire" in the US when it comes to scuba. I could see some cave-diving folks getting behind it... Imagine if you could prohibit a "cave instructor" from Ulan Bator, or Idaho from teaching in Ginnie because they aren't licensed to practice in Florida... As a FL-licensed cave diving instructor, your value just went up, because now you are a scarce resource.

Meanwhile, back at the ranch, Debbie Snow is still a PADI instructor (last I looked), making derisive comments on Facebook about the victim here, and still authorized by PADI to go out and fill students' pockets with rocks.

Jim, this rant isn't pointed at you. I'm forever grateful for the knowledge you've shared with me offline and on the board, and thanks to you, I enjoy teaching navigation! I hope you are staying upright on the bike!

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

Roughly twice a year. That's why I went tropical for an IDC: My work schedule conflicted with IDC/IE dates in Seattle.
Could do LA, and it'd be cold water diving, but the cost of housing in LA (or Hawaii) is high. Some IDC courses include cheap housing in the price.

Did you jump into teaching solo or co-teach/assist first?

 

[Seaweed Doc]

Did you jump into teaching solo or co-teach/assist first?

I'd done a lot of DM'ing with multiple instructors prior to the IDC, so observed a lot. I leaned what to do from some, and what not to do from others.

Once rated, I taught one or two students at a time for a bit. Then upped it to 3-4. I still won't take more than 4 out at a time in open water. I also kept DM'ing (more or less) when first an instructor, helping others out. And of course, once instructor-rated I could evaluate skills if that helped the instructor of record out.

All in cold water, except the IDC.

 

[Wookie]

To those who said it would settle, you were right and I was wrong.

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

To those who said it would settle, you were right and I was wrong.

I was wrong too.

Edit: upon further review, it is the Gentry family that settled, not the Mills family. Is this correct?

 

[dfcliff]

The way I'm reading that order, it's just the minor E.G. that has settled, correct?